Part 2 of a 2-Part Interview with John Morton | Spiritual Director of MSIA

Click Here To Read Part 1 of this Interview

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NDH: What are some keys for understanding how you work as the Traveler, and for relating to the Traveler inside?

John Morton: I think that one of the ways that I work is that I just demonstrate my abundant ordinariness. J-R said it for himself, that he’s an example of how if he can do it, anybody can do it. Well, there are a few of us who have seen him do a few things where we have no idea how he does that. But he also demonstrated a down-to-earth nature. I see myself as another version of that. I’m very down-to-earth and then the Traveler does its thing, and when it’s doing its thing it’s also saying that you have a thing too, so don’t rely on my thing, do your thing. Work your thing. It’s constantly encouraging people, showing people by demonstration.

I also think we’re in a time when people have to drop agendas and prejudice, or pre-judgment. So if people are caught in any kind of prejudice, it’s as if they get tripped up on the way to the Traveler. I know it’s a broad stroke I just laid out. We need to self-determine the Traveler. You can’t just believe it. You can have faith but you have to come into your own experience. So if I’m involved it’s because it’s my free choice, I’m choosing in full responsibility to do this and involve myself in it.

And it’s kind of tough for people because maybe they don’t like his hair that way. What’s the curly thing about? People actually did that. They got all hung up about the way J-R dressed, his mannerisms, his jokes (which were very blue at times). In a way he did these things that were jaw-dropping, where you’d say that’s not very spiritual. But if people can’t get past the fact that I can do something like that and I’m still the Traveler, then they’re stuck and they need to realize that they let that hang them up. When you get into the Spirit there’s no judgment. He said something like, “I’ve done it all so if you want to accuse me of any of the sins, OK I’m a sinner, I did it. So if your judgment is that if you did it at any time in your existence you’re still guilty, then I’m guilty.” I saw that trip up person after person. They’d find something they didn’t like or agree with about J-R or about MSIA. They’d get hung up over the font in a discourse, or the ink color or the paper.

So what if the information is at a third grade level or it’s unsophisticated? So what? Work it. There’s a truth in there. I’ve observed that over and over. So many people get caught before they even get started or check it out. They won’t even try chanting, or they won’t get the discourses because it’s $100. It was $100 probably in 1983. We haven’t raised our prices in 30-some years. If we were interested in money you’d think we’d raise our prices. It’s 30 cents a day to be connected to something you may have been looking for in your entire existence. Why would you think that’s a reason not to check it out?

All these things are there to keep away the people who are not real or authentic. You have to come here and go for a direct experience. Even that is daunting at times, and on the inner levels it’s really daunting. That’s where the game intensifies with ever greater magnitude. If we have any fear of God or what we’ve done in our past existence, or if we would deny it and say, “Oh I would never do such a thing,” then you have to realize that you were probably the head of the club, the leader. You say, “No I wouldn’t do that.” But you did. And we need to just say, “OK, that’s part of where I come from. But I’m not doing that anymore. I’m letting that go, I’m not in that anymore, I graduated.” So can’t you forget about that?

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That’s one of the basic teachings, that we have to learn how not to hold somebody’s past against them. That was one of the lessons that Insight brought in, that people need to stop running somebody’s past on them. You release it and forgive it, so even if they did do it, they get the benefit. We need to be more like that, of a forgiving nature. It’s like, let me give you a new start. People think that’s a setup, that they may betray or disappoint me again. And we say, “You’re big enough.”

And maybe in some way it’s worth it to give them some inspiration or an invitation to do better. Especially when nobody seems to want to be their friend. That’s the opportunity to minister to somebody and say, “there but for the grace of God go I,” and now it’s your turn. Someone helped you when you were in that state and now it’s your turn to help someone who’s in the state you were in. I think that’s one of the ways we get measured—when we forgive someone and we have that karma come back around and we say, “You used to have that self-judgment toward yourself— that you were no good, or a liar or a cheat or a scumbag or something like that. And that’s what they’re calling this person. Are you going to be kind to them and not judge them, maybe reach out a hand to them when nobody would reach out a hand?” That’s the kind of charity I’ve seen with J-R. He would take somebody that nobody else would want to be around and treat them kindly. He had that kind of compassion.

NDH: What’s it been like for you since J-R has passed? Have things changed for you?

JM: They were changing before he passed. My view is that he was passing for quite a while. Something very powerful happened when he hurt his eye in 2004. For me, I experienced that he went through a passage like a death in that. You could say, was there a window open to the spirit? The way it happened he came close, by anyone’s explanation, by falling downstairs and hitting his head really hard. He did puncture his eye, and the initial call from the doctors was to remove the eye. To put that into any kind of perspective, it’s a pretty close brush with death. For me, things were very different from that time on. In my experience J-R elevated his consciousness so that he was even more out of the body. Those of us who worked closely with him knew that was already the case a lot. Now it was even more so. And after his fall there were times when he was vividly present, vividly in the body for sure.

But it was different. I think all of us who saw him physically could see something diminishing physically, such that at some point he passed from the body. Were there signs? Yes of course, and those could be measured by medical technology. So certainly in 2014 in some way J-R was passing. When he did pass, it was just the punctuation, the period at the end of the sentence.

He was gone for a lot of 2014, and 2013 too. Physically my relationship with him was changing over the last several years, so I wasn’t talking to him or seeing him as much…which opened up the inner relationship. The inner thing moved from 90% to 100%. Do I miss him? Of course I miss him. But in some ways I was missing him for years because I didn’t have the same physical closeness. I was traveling a lot when he wasn’t traveling. I missed the time when we traveled together a lot.

That had changed in the ‘90s when I got married and my children were born. But he was a member of our family so he was at dinner most every night that we were a family. So he was very much in the family while that was going on. Then as the kids got older things shifted…and pretty much for about ten or fifteen years things were shifting. So when it finally happened last October, it wasn’t that much of a shift on the physical.

In some ways I was already grieving. That’s how I look at it. Leigh could tell you the stories of how I missed J-R. I missed the physical, 10% part of that connection, the physical friendship. Everybody could argue for the “position” that they were the closest to J-R. But for me it’s not a position and I don’t put a measurement on it. I don’t clock it to see how much time I, or anyone, put in. The physical closeness was not as much, and things were changing, and it transformed in other ways. I needed to do what others were doing all along, which was to work it more spiritually and be less dependent physically. But I still look at it like I have that dependency because I do miss that part. If that was available to me right now, to see him physically, it would be like, “Where is he? I’m going!”

But it comes to a place where we need to move on. When people would ask me what I was going to do when J-R passes, my answer was, “I don’t know.” I left it open. My dedication was primarily with him, including physically. I knew that was powerful enough that when he was out of here physically it was possible that some part of me would be released with him. It was really possible, and I left that open. He had said as much—that when he went physically, the next Traveler (and me specifically) might do anything. He doesn’t have to stay involved with MSIA. He might form his own church or something. I looked at it like, “OK those are possibilities, but why would I want to do that?” And now that we’re in it, I don’t have any inclination whatsoever to go somewhere other than where I am with MSIA doing what I’m doing as the Traveler.

I look at it as “I’m in.” If you ask, “Are you committed, are you dedicated, are you devoted?” the answer is, “Yes.” The work isn’t done—the work that J-R did to bring a message and establish what he established spiritually—because of the incarnation the Traveler and Preceptor consciousness came through his body, in his lifetime.

And what did it do? I see a direct relationship, that he took what Jesus did, which is the Christ, and he expanded and amplified it. He moved it into a next round. There’s no separation or disconnection. It’s the same work. In a way it’s as if J-R would also say that I leave you with my Spirit. In so many ways he said that—I’m always with you, my love enfolds you. There are many ways where you can find J-R saying that over and over, and the only way that J-R could say something like that is spiritually. It wouldn’t be true physically. So if someone says, “He’s gone, he’s not with us now,” we could say, “Well, you’re looking physically.”

Jesus the person couldn’t say, “When you’ve seen me you’ve seen the Father.” He wasn’t talking as some guy in a body. He was talking at a level where he was up in the Spirit. So go in the Spirit. That’s who’s speaking. But it’s also speaking here. J-R’s work was on that scale, and then some. I don’t have any apologies for that. Jesus said as much: “This too you shall do and even greater.”

Some people say he was talking about those who were there at the time, and I say that John was pretty close. And J-R made it clear but he didn’t speak about it very often. He said he was the consciousness of John, the one they called Beloved. J-R didn’t make it a secret, but neither did he make it the issue, like “I want you all to recognize this.” But in so many ways he said, “I am that. But I’m also Roger.”

What is that? Was he on some other planet? Was John an incarnation or an influence? John was in a body but he didn’t have to be born from a womb. Well, that’s been said before in other places. It’s not news. So when we see this, it’s mysterious but then again if you listen to all the seminars and you start putting the puzzle together, at some point you can see that it was spoken. And I think that’s what’s going to happen over time. We’re going to further reveal the teachings that are still being put out.

He didn’t say it all in one night, although there were occasions when it felt like he said it all in about 10 minutes. You can see it in “Christ My Man for Eternity” … click the below to watch video.

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I feel that’s part of what we’ve picked up after J-R’s passing. We’re not done working the teachings and then being a church or a place where they have been dropped. They’ve been placed here in a new gospel, a living gospel, a living scripture.

J-R came in and did it, and what I have is more of an attunement with the consciousness. I don’t have to lay it down as another gospel. I don’t know how to improve on what J-R said.

When I went to write my book, I thought, “I don’t know how to improve on what J-R said. There’s no need for me to write a book a book because I’d just tell people, ‘Go read his.’” But then I realized that there’s something about every person’s testimony, so that you relate your own experience of the Traveler and Soul Transcendence. And you could deliver a seminar, because the Traveler is in us. But there’s something about who has those keys physically. There’s something to that. And I understand that, so in my own way I don’t forget I’m the Traveler. You could say, “Well, sometimes you act like a pretty dense personality.” OK, fine. I saw that come out of J-R too. It happens. If you’re going to measure who has the keys by their personality or expression, then good luck. I’m picking up what is left to me, and there’s a level that’s not with J-R now, but it’s with me; and there’s a level that J-R took with him. He has those keys to Soul Transcendence, and since he left he still has them. He didn’t pass them off to you or anyone else. They came in, they were here, and they took off, but they’re in a place that’s prepared. So by having the connection as initiates, there’s still this great opportunity to do Soul Transcendence with J-R, with Jesus and with the whole line of the Travelers.

Does the line go to God? It does. The line would then be opened up. The keys were then brought in to open it up to the heart of God. Those are the key words. So when people ask about what J-R said about “the heart of God,” those words are important, they’re like “heaven” or “the kingdom.” They tell us we’re going all the way. I don’t know anything beyond that, including in the Soul realm.

What will we be doing as initiates, and what will the initiates who have passed from the psychic-material worlds into the soul realm be doing now? Initiations into the heart of God. Do you mean that we can do that too, while we’re on the earth? Yeah. Those keys didn’t pass so that they’re no longer available. They’re available through me because I’m passing people up the line, into the Soul realm. At that point they would be having the opportunity to turn toward the Traveler who is holding those keys for the initiations above. J-R talked about that. He said he was the only one in the world with those keys— so he’s saying that John Morton doesn’t have them, nor does anyone else. But that’s OK because we’re working in this bridging so that I have the keys into the Soul level initiations.

I don’t have any quarrels with other groups who claim they have the keys. I’m not here to do a lineup to find out who has the best keys, or who’s the greatest holder in the world. I just know I have them for people who want that through MSIA and the Traveler consciousness. It’s like J-R has said, if you’re the only one in town selling cars, where else are people going to go when they want a car? They’ll come to you.

Jesus said that in so many ways. “I am the light, the way, I’m the truth and all who come, come by me.” It sounds very arrogant until you look at who’s speaking and what are they speaking of? That’s God’s voice and authority who speaks that. And is it OK if God speaks it through this one as a gate-holder, a portal? That’s always been the case. There are those who have the keys for those who are ready. And I just see myself as extending to the Soul.

And we have the discourses. J-R has said every which way that he will be working with people through the discourses— and the discourses have his name on them. I look at it as that’s not dead, that’s alive. And then we have a Traveler with the keys who would work through the psychic-material worlds—because J-R didn’t want to be remaining in the psychic-material levels.

He didn’t want to stay incarnate, and neither do we. So he made good, and that’s why I refer to him as “Soul transcended.” That just means he’s in Soul. And that’s available if you want to have that experience. And then people say they are still having inner experiences and dreams with him like I used to. Isn’t that interesting? The Traveler consciousness has a way of doing that.

Does that mean that J-R is still incarnate? I don’t see it that way. I see it as the inner experience in the Soul nature is revealed psychically. It’s an interpretation of what’s taking place in the Soul or the Spirit. If you asked how we would draw a picture of it, it would be, “Like this dream.” So the dream isn’t really a picture of it? No, but it’s a really good likeness, so you’ll get what you need to know. The message and the experience are delivered to you so you know you had it. So it’s very natural for people to still have experiences with John-Roger inwardly so they would have a sign and know he’s still working with them. But don’t expect it to be what it was a year ago or ten years ago. It’s progressed. Some people say that they’re not having dreams or visions, and I say, “Well let’s consider that that part of it is done and you don’t need that.” But where is it now? That’s more the question. My job is essentially escorting people. That’s another way to describe the Wayshower. I just escort people to the door so that they can have a direct experience. Often it happens in such a way that they say they saw me, and had a certain experience, or saw me at the foot of their bed, and they ask, “Do you remember that?” Often I take a moment. I don’t have an immediate answer. If you’re asking my mind the answer is no. It’s not a personal thing and I didn’t do that on a personal level. It’s not John Morton the personality that is appearing. It’s a form of the Traveler consciousness in a way that will help you recognize it, so that it’s in a way saying, “That guy is a vehicle that we’re working with.” So it helps people relate to it. I’m a Soul transporter device.

In some ways I got a promotion just because of the nature of it, so I had to take on a responsibility that J-R had in the physical and psychic levels. But how different is my job? At the core not different at all. In MSIA? There have been some changes. Looking around you could say there are some differences but in a way there is not any difference. In large part, in the practical part that we’re doing, it is the same. In my experience, somehow J-R blessed MSIA so whatever fits under that as an organization, and whoever is involved, there was a giant, karma-clearing blessing. There is much in my life that lifted in the last year. I was experiencing it before October 22 when J-R passed. Something was already being lifted. Whatever I was enduring and encountering as my personal challenges in the world in large part lifted and cleared, so that I considered it happened to MSIA not just to John Morton.

But what is MSIA? It’s way beyond an organization. So it’s not like it happened to those 4000 or 5000 people in MSIA and that’s it. I think it happened to the world. That’s much more difficult for me to articulate. So how was the world blessed? One way I would put it is that he finished his job and he held on and just kept going to the end. It’s ironic because J-R was talking about leaving probably in the 60’s right after he got the keys. And he certainly was talking to me about it in 1988, and I was ready. He could have passed. He was in the hospital within a week after I got the keys in December of ‘88, and I was there with him. I thought maybe that was it.

I just look at it that he was here from 1988 to 2014 under some kind of extension. That’s a long time by any measurement. It’s a long time to endure and hold to the blessed end. So there’s a part of me that just wants to make good. I like the word “legacy.” Part of his legacy is that he left us with a kind of challenge, like the challenges that he used to issue at the end of his early seminars. I think the challenge is that we would pick it up rather than say, “Well, that’s it, I think I’ll just relax or go off into the sunset.” We pick it up so that we are the vehicles, we are the instruments of the Traveler and of the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness. Those who are active, willing, and doing the work have a great opportunity to expand it. And there’s always been that opportunity.

Baruch Bashan
John Morton DSS

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