100% Living & Dying With John-Roger | with Rama Fox
by David Sand

NDH: How did you meet John-Roger?

Rama Fox: Looking back, I see my whole life as a set-up for meeting the Mystical Traveler. Prior to coming into MSIA, I was a model and engaged to someone who was extraordinarily wealthy. While I stayed with him in his homes in Chicago, material things were offered to me with great generosity and enthusiasm. The people with whom we kept company were highly affluent, as well.

Prior to that, I had dated various world-famous individuals. What I couldn’t help noticing was, regardless of their fame or finances, although the people I knew were generally nice, they didn’t seem all that fulfilled. It seemed to be a never-ending reach for something that eluded them. I began to have a very deep, uncomfortable feeling of emptiness. There was so much being offered to me—a home filled with the most expensive modern art on the planet, as well as a socially busy and seemingly “important” life—but it wasn’t fulfilling for me, either. I was clueless as to what to do.

I began to feel terribly lonely inside. Then I read Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha, which is about the Buddha. He was a prince in India who had everything—was protected from knowing about anything that was ill, old, or unattractive. On the vast grounds of his kingdom everything had to have a pristine and almost perfect appearance. His parents, who were trying to protect him, only wanted him to behold beauty and riches.

A childhood friend of his finally took him outside the realm in which he’d been confined—and there he was shocked to see a whole other reality. Poverty, disease, old age. Shocked, heart-broken and torn with compassion, he abandoned everything he had in order to see if he could find a solution to all the pain and suffering he witnessed. I didn’t compare myself to him, of course—but I deeply related to the story. Sobbing as I read it…it was though he was mirroring my emptiness, but in a much grander way. There was a hint of possibility for me.

Part of the “set-up” by Spirit in my life was back when I was eleven years old in Miami, where I grew up. I had been walking on a sand bar when the tide came in. I hadn’t known how to swim and I drowned. I had multi-dimensional experiences—what eventually became referred to as a “near-death experience.” Personally, I would name it a “death-return experience.”

I was in God’s infinite presence. I was eleven years old, in a dimension that was infinitely opening before me…full of Light. I still don’t know how to describe it, but every color you could imagine was there. If I chose to, I could see all of them individually, yet they were all one. They were so beautiful and infinite; all God in Light manifestation. Love was all-pervasive—like breathing air. Everywhere. It was God. Beyond question.

As anyone knows who’s had a direct experience with Reality, there are no doubts about it. It’s absolute knowing. The love is extraordinary. It’s impossible to put it in words or put a quantitative label on it.Shortly after that, I was in another level of heaven and walking golden paths that had form. I don’t know what part of heaven it was, but it was magnificent beyond imagination. I recall being filled with wonderment and thinking, “I didn’t know anything could be this beautiful!”
Even the sounds of birds singing could break your heart with their sheer beauty. Everything moved through me. It wasn’t like walking up to something seemingly separate. I don’t know how to describe it.

I remember thinking, “I wish mother could know where I am; I’m not only fine…I’m in this extraordinary place. She’d be so happy for me.” I didn’t lose the awareness of my mother back on earth at the beach. I understood without her knowing where I was that she’d be inconsolable—believing her daughter had just drowned.

Suddenly I became aware there were “angels” next to me—three of them together, yet as one. They were translucent, radiating an inner white light. Reading my mind, they spoke inside me, “Do you want to go back?” Here I was in Heaven, coming from a life on earth that was very difficult. It was only caring about my mother that gave me a moment’s pause. I heard myself ask, “If I go back, could I later come back here?”

They assured me, “Yes.”

Unconvinced, I asked again, “Are you sure I can come back?”

Once more, they responded, “Yes.”

Still doubtful, I asked a third time—and they guaranteed, “Yes. Although it will be a while and you’ll have a lot to do.” They didn’t force me to go back. They gave me an option. In that nanosecond when I trusted I’d be able to come back, I suddenly experienced being back in the ocean. It was the most miserable, heavy, drugged-like feeling—so familiar with the limitations of life on earth.

That heavenly experience became a part of my psyche: Knowing that God exists. Fast-forward to my 20’s, going through all the experiences with so-called elite, worldly people…and then reading Siddhartha. I couldn’t help but consider, “I know God exists and we’re not limited to being on Earth…but why are we on Earth? Does life here have meaning?”

I was processing all this with the awareness that regardless of people diligently trying, they didn’t seem to me to be fulfilled. The question became so prominent for me that I could hardly think of anything else. My reasoning, (however limited it might have been) was, “If life doesn’t have meaning, then nothing could mean anything. If it does have meaning, it seems as though knowing what the meaning is would be paramount.” Maybe that could lead me to something which could fill the vast emptiness I was feeling.

As naïve as it might have been, in that Fall of 1969, I asked my fiancé if he would put his vast financial holdings in safe keeping for a year and travel around the world with me to see if we could find someone who knew the meaning of life. I had no ideas or suggestions. I didn’t know if any such person was out there. I didn’t know there were living masters. As though I was being lifted on an enormous wave—this had now become my entire focus. Although it was carrying me, I had no idea as to where or how. (Of course, it was all in preparation to meet J-R.)

A week later, my fiancé responded. He didn’t say, “No.” Instead he replied, “I don’t think so.” The next morning, when he went to work, it was similar to an iron-like gate closing inside of me. I was finished with that life. I had no clue where to go, but I was being carried on the wave. I packed up my car and as I drove out of Chicago I called him to let him know I was going back to my Miami home. I didn’t intend to be insensitive and abrupt, but I was in a flow that was all-consuming. I felt comparable to jumping off a cliff, reasoning, “If anything is left when I hit bottom, that will be real.” I didn’t consider if that kind of thinking was flawed, but it didn’t matter because that’s what was carrying me.

Back in Miami, I had someone house-sitting for me while I was gone. This person had hired an itinerant young man to help him with his gardening business, and he’d invited this guy to come and stay with him in my house. So when I arrived at my home, there was a stranger there who looked a lot like Jesus could well have looked.

I told this guy about my quest, and he suggested, “There’s somebody on a taped recording I think you’re going to want to hear.” I was wide open to anything new. So a couple of days later, I went to the address. It was nighttime and quite dark. The directions led me to a large cluster of grey-colored apartment buildings. The asphalt of the parking lot went right up to the buildings. There was no greenery, no trees. It looked like a prison without the walls. Over each entry doorway hung an exposed light bulb. To say this place was stark is a major understatement.

There I was, recently coming from incredible luxury. Yet somehow the starkness of the place didn’t faze me. I was now on a journey into what…I didn’t know. And I was filled with anticipation.

I tapped on what seemed to be the right door…and someone opened it about two inches. It was as dark as a movie theater inside and they said, “Yeah?” I didn’t even have J-R’s name, so I asked, “Is this where a tape is being played?” The person opened the door to about 12 inches, so that I had to move sideways to get through.

When I got inside, my eyes adjusted to the light. I could see people in a small living room, sitting in lotus positions with their backs against the wall. No one was in the middle of the room. There were only two chairs: one was a recliner with somebody sitting in it. The other was straight-backed, also with someone sitting in it. There was a lone audio cassette player in the middle of the room. Very little was said to me. Clearly, I had come in right at the moment when they were ready to start playing the tape. The only space left to sit against the wall was behind the back of the recliner, and I crawled under it.

As the tape began to play, and on it I could hear chairs creaking, people coughing and sneezing, nearby car horns, and dogs barking outside. Back then, anyone who wanted to record J-R could bring their portable cassette recorder and put it near his feet. Every machine would pick up and amplify the whirring sounds from all the other tape recorders, and all these noises then merged on all the tapes. This was the only way to get a recording.

Needless to say, it was quite difficult to understand what J-R was saying. Regardless, at that first seminar, an energy I’d never before experienced flooded through me. Something in me (that was me…but up until then never heard) said with great depth, resonance and surety, “I’m HOME.” It was as though the voice permeated the very cells of my body. Later I heard the old adage: when the student is ready, the master appears.

Meanwhile, I was vaguely aware that as the tape was playing, there were frequent taps on the door and someone would open it the same two inches, then 12 inches. Each time somebody would come in, go to a back room and leave shortly afterward. When the tape finished playing, everyone was quite friendly, telling me about John-Roger. It was all a bit of a blur to me because by then I was in a euphoric state, due to the energy I’d experienced. So many of us have heard J-R say through the years that he could say “ham-and-eggs” and it wouldn’t matter because it’s Spirit that’s doing it. That’s what happened to me.

I went to two or three more tape seminars there, and later on I got a phone call that the meeting was going to be held somewhere else. We found out that people had been dealing drugs in the back room and that’s why they kept going in and out. Clearly we needed a new place to hold J-R’s “seminars”.

I was living in a big two-story Spanish home with just my dog. So I happily volunteered, “We can hold them at my house.” That was the start of my home becoming like an MSIA center in Miami.

A few months later, in March of 1970, we heard from J-R (who was a high school teacher) that he was going on spring break—and planned on coming to Miami to visit us. So I invited him to stay in my guest room, and we could continue to do seminars in my home. He not only accepted, but also offered to do what he called “Light Studies” with people, which were one-on-one private counselings.

When J-R came to Miami, of course, I had a Light Study. The first thing J-R started talking about was a past lifetime I’d had. In my current lifetime, when I was three and a half years old I was placed in a boarding home for a few months. I was locked in a small linen closet. Even though my body was little, the linen closet wasn’t large enough for me to stretch out on the floor or stand up, because the bottom shelf was lower than my height. So I just sat there and curled up to sleep.

Although this was a frightening, bewildering experience at the time, it was also part of the “set-up” to be with The Traveler. Although I was alone in that dark closet without even a single toy, most of the time I was taken out of my body. I would be journeying through all sorts of dimensions…some quite beautiful. One, however, was not. I entered it in the “now” (not as though it was “past”). It was a lifetime where I was a grown male where I had unusual power and control over others. I subjected people to very harmful treatment. Although I was sickened and hated myself for what I was doing, I was helplessly addicted and compelled to doing it. The level of self-loathing was almost unbearable. It was an awful experience.

I would come back into the closet as a little girl, but with all of the terrible self-loathing as full-blown, mature adult male feelings. I knew I was that, but there was nothing I could do to change it from my three and a half year-old life. It was tremendously painful.

Still in the closet, I’d also be taken out to places full of light. Then I’d come back to the closet—and I’d be pulled back again into the awful lifetime where I wished I didn’t exist. I definitely didn’t want to go. Months later two of my aunts rescued me, taking me away to their home.

So fast-forward to meeting J-R, where in my first Light Study he started with, “There’s a lifetime we want to talk about.” He began describing who I was in that difficult lifetime that I experienced while in the closet. He shared what had been going on, what I’d come to do in this lifetime now…and how that previous lifetime set up the karma for this life. I had never told anyone about my experiences of that other life. To have J-R discuss it with matter-of-fact specificity was simply amazing. And humbling.

As time went on, whenever J-R came to town, I can’t do justice to the joy we all felt. My home really was the center. Everyone knew they were welcome and where the house key was. I’d leave home during the day and come at night to find all the lights on, music playing and the fireplace going. I’d walk in and people would wave, “Hi Rama,” and then go back to their conversations. I loved it because I felt like I was the privileged keeper of the Traveler’s home in Miami. We had a Friday night seminar for five straight years. If I was out of town visiting J-R in L.A., it didn’t matter. There was always a seminar.

NDH: What was it like when you met J-R for the first time?

Rama: People went to the airport to pick him up and I waited in my home in order to have soft music, a lit fireplace and candles glowing to greet him. I wanted him to enter a warm, welcoming environment. When he arrived, I was upstairs on the balcony that overlooked the two-story, cathedral-ceilinged living room. He had on khaki pants that were a bit short, penny loafers with white socks, and an everyday cotton short-sleeved shirt. He appeared very self-assured and ordinary. Nothing special seemed to come from him, as one might imagine a holy man would likely exude. I didn’t have a specific sense of what he should be like, but whatever he was…it wasn’t what I’d unconsciously anticipated.

A few days later, we’d held a couple of seminars and settled into a kind of routine. I’d been cooking meals for him and his assistant, I’d had my Light Study, and there were a lot of people coming in and out of my home. People simply wanted to be there in the energy, even if they didn’t have an appointment. Upstairs, I saw J-R during a break sitting on one of the beds in the guest room, reading. The door was open, so I tapped on the door frame to catch his attention. Looking up, he smiled, “Yeah?”
Without knowing what I wanted to say, I asked, “Can I talk with you?

“Sure,” patting the bed next to him, “Sit down.” As I did, he inquired, “What’s up?”

I said, “Well, you’re not at all what I expected.”

He grinned, “What were you expecting? Maybe someone like Jesus? If you were, you must have really been disappointed.”

I felt so much appreciation for him. I replied, “Well, I don’t know, but you are different than what I anticipated. I feel like Alice in Wonderland and you’re like the White Rabbit. I keep trying to catch up with you—but you’re always ahead of me, just in sight while still moving on. You say things that are remarkable, which open my life, my world, the way I think, the way I feel, and how I see things. Even though I think I’m absorbing what you’re saying…there’s always a whole other level which presents itself. It just keeps opening. So I’m keeping my eyes on you.”

He laughed, “Let’s make a deal. Don’t believe anything I tell you. See if you can work any of it. And what you can work, use it. If you can’t use or work some of it, don’t worry about it. Maybe go back and visit it another time. See if you can use it then.” He continued, “I don’t want a bunch of blind followers around me. I want people who are sincerely awakening and want to experience the truth of their own being and their oneness with God. Those are the people I want around me.”

I said, “I can do that!” This “pact” was so freeing and encouraging for me. Yes, I know he’s said that probably thousands of times to many people throughout the intervening years—but back then it was the first time I’d ever heard anything so liberating. I loved him for it because he wanted for us to have an experience, not of him as this holy man, but of our own divine being and our oneness with God; and how God is everywhere…in everything.

NDH: What was it like working as a volunteer with J-R and MSIA in the early days?

Rama: Grace-filled and joyful. It was a blessing to be of service. When he would do seminars in my home he never acted superior or pontificated. He was sharing with such love. I would look around the room, witnessing hearts and eyes so adoringly, gratefully open …receiving what he was saying like fresh, clean rain on thirsty plants. Who wouldn’t want the privilege of being whatever small part of contributing to that? It was a blessing.

There were countless ways to volunteer. Way back then schools took off for the summer, teachers included, unless there was some summer school. J-R loved to travel. During the summertime he’d take car trips to different places around the country. At the beginning of summer break in 1970, I was visiting him in Los Angeles. J-R was ready to go traveling the country for the summer and I asked him, “Is there anything I can do for you, J-R?”

He replied, “I’ll think about it.” A little while later he returned with the bottom part of a shoebox filled with recorded but unmarked audio cassette tapes. Handing the box to me, “I don’t know what’s on these tapes. If you wouldn’t mind, you could listen to them and give me highlights of what’s on them.”

Of course, it was a joy for me to be able to do something for him. Back in Miami, the first one I heard started with, “If you would know the Secret of Soul Transcendence…” Every antenna in my consciousness snapped to attention. It continued, “…look only for the good, that is, the Divine, in people and things…and leave all the rest to God.” He talked about how the way we see others is a manifestation of our own consciousness that is being shown to us, and in reality everything is part of a vast cosmic orchestra and integral to the overall and harmonious playing of the whole. I listened—and knew that was my life lesson. I had no clue as to how whatever I perceived was a reflection of my consciousness. I didn’t know how it worked, but something inside of me, beyond my not-knowing, knew that it was true.

Today, I have (in comparison to where I was) a great understanding of what this means. I incorporate it in my life by noticing where I have judgments, withholds, where I pretend to myself that I know what’s going on. Whether I’m seeing something as good or bad, it’s really about my judgments, value systems, lens and filters. As I’m willing to let go of those, then I’m opening up to whatever is part of God’s creation, willing to recognize and experience God, the Divine and myself in all things.

Regarding being a volunteer—here’s another example. Also in the shoebox there was another tape that had instantaneously profound impact on me. With the first word out of J-R’s mouth, I knew I was listening to Spirit talking. It was sheer, off-the-cuff poetry. I listened, rewound and re-listened over and over. The beauty of it is was so great, so pure and uplifting that I had to write it down. I didn’t know what was coming—I just moved on what was in my heart. At that time, there was a woman attending seminars in Miami who was a gifted calligrapher. I got the idea to make a book out of the tape I just mentioned. Together she and I created illustrations, like a flying bird, a crown, or what might be symbolic of whatever would be written on a given page. When J-R next came to Miami, I hadn’t told him about it. At that point it wasn’t in book form yet—just a stack of art boards—each one planned to eventually be a different page of the completed book.

I walked up to J-R with these in my hand and gave them to him without saying anything. He took the stack and began to read—carefully taking in each page. He knew it was his. As he looked, his eyes got pink and moist. Slowly looking up at me, he said in a sweetly tender voice, “This is my first book.”

Although I was capable of good editing at the time, I hadn’t changed a single word. There was no need, for it was sheer poetry coming out of the Traveler consciousness. I’d only added the Forward. I named it (and it was published as) The Spiritual Promise.

Not too long after, I got a phone call from someone in Australia. Back then, international calls were very expensive. When making any long-distance call, people used to be very time-conscious. Something like a ten minute call just within the U.S. was considered costly. Here was this guy calling from Australia to Miami! Somebody had sent him a copy of the book, which had moved him deeply. He had seemingly endless questions about J-R and MSIA. We were on the phone for an hour and a half. He was so thirsty for the Spirit. He was the man who started MSIA in Australia because of that book. How profound is it that J-R speaks poetry to a small room of people in the U.S. and it goes from there to touch so many souls in Australia?!

NDH: What were J-R’s teachings like in those early days? Were they any different from later on?

Rama: The deepest teachings were being given from the very beginning and they never changed. J-R talked about how out of God comes all things and God loves all Its creation. Not one soul will be lost. If you would know the secret heart of even your worst enemy, you would only love them. Speak kind words and don’t gossip. Send the Light for the highest good, regardless of what you think is going on. It’s not about empowering whatever appears to be negative or condoning it. It’s about sending the Christed light so that any darkness can be lifted. He suggested considering the analogy of someone in a dark room who lights a single match—the darkness is instantly dispersed according to how bright the light is. Darkness always has to give way to the Light. Back then, I knew in my heart the teachings were priceless, but I didn’t know how to incorporate them into my consciousness as I do now. And, of course, I’m still learning; absolutely still learning.

When listening to recordings of his from the late 1960’s, early 1970’s, we can hear a young loving being in his thirties expounding timeless words of wisdom. He told us over and over that it wasn’t about him. He insisted it was the Spirit to which we were responding—the reason why we were feeling so much love was because Spirit was so present. The Traveler Consciousness is a kind of instrument for Spirit and it’s in every one of us—that’s what we were experiencing.

He always said it wasn’t about him or his personality; that he was merely a vessel through which Spirit manifested. What the teachings are here for, the whole purpose, is for us to awaken to who we truly are—not as a belief system, but as a direct knowing of who we are, and how we are all one with God…that everything is God. And we don’t have to wait until we die to know this. That’s what was going on.

Regardless of what he said, it was hard not make it be about J-R, personally, because he was touching all our hearts so profoundly. He had a remarkable quality that would enter a room…and love would be everywhere.

Another example of what it was like being with him was a time when he was in Miami and we had a seminar scheduled for that evening. It was a beautiful balmy Miami day and some of us, including J-R, went sailing. If someone knows about sailing, they know that if a boat is heading into the wind, in order to get to a certain point, you have to do what is called “tacking.” This means having to head into the wind in such a way that the boat has to head left and then right, back and forth… continually adjusting for “on course, off course.” It can take a long time in comparison to having the wind coming from behind and pushing the boat straight ahead.
Well, we had set out with the wind behind us, so we were zooming out into the ocean, focusing on the beautiful day, when one of us wondered aloud, “What time is it?” We were a long way from shore and the wind was coming off the shore, which meant we had to turn around and go into the wind, and it would take us much longer to get back. We would surely be late for the seminar and there’d be no one there to tell people where we were.

What does J-R do? He says, “Wait a minute,” closes his eyes and the wind stops dead. The sails flatten, doing nothing. Then, off the stern (from the rear—the entirely opposite direction), the wind quickly and strongly picks up. That means the sail is where it’s perpendicular to the boat, pushing it straight in. We got to my house and the seminar well before it started. Just like that—yet another J-R-induced happening.

I witnessed many things like that. It was amusing in a way because many of us have shared with one another how, on the one hand, a part of our consciousness would ask, “who is this guy?” Yet another part of consciousness was so used to him doing this kind of stuff that we thought something like, “How cool…what’s next?” Meanwhile, he’s saying, “Do not look at it as me. It is Spirit.” Of course, he was the instrument through which all that was happening. So it was really easy to make it be about him.
The generosity of what he did was simply incredible. He had a way of teaching that, for me, couldn’t have been better. He would talk from the Traveler Consciousness with a resonance evoking deep soul knowing, “This is true.” It was expansive, uniting, and uplifting. One would experience compassion and forgiveness of one’s self and others. My response back in what we refer to as “the early years” was to do what I could to help bring forward platforms from which J-R could share the teachings. I had been friends with Larry King, who was already a Miami media celebrity. He had his own local TV show, a column in the Miami Herald newspaper, as well as a nationally syndicated five-hours long nighttime radio talk show.

So when J-R initially was coming to town, I asked Larry if he would MC a Miami MSIA event, as well as have J-R on his radio show. Through the years, J-R was to be a guest on Larry’s radio show many times. I also arranged J-R’s first TV show appearance, which was on a local show hosted by Sally Jessy. She later became the highly popular host of the nationally syndicated Sally Jessy Raphael Show. I had no history in the area of promotion; nevertheless, it seemed Spirit made it easy for me to organize all these different things for J-R.

I was also friends with Peter Max, who was the international, highly acclaimed “psychedelic pop” artist, whose work included the Beatles’ hit animated movie, Yellow Submarine. Everywhere you went there were Peter Max posters and artwork. When I asked Peter to create a poster for a Miami based MSIA public event I was spearheading, he unhesitatingly did so without charge. The event was at the Unity Center Auditorium on April 7, 1971. The poster includes the words, “A world exists where all eyes are open, All truths experienced. It is a world of Total Being, and it lives within … you. Come, and pay yourself a visit.”
NDH: How did you experience MSIA’s growth as an organization?

Rama: It grew in response to our requests as participants. We’d ask, “J-R, could we have better sound quality tapes for our seminars? May we have discourses that aren’t mimeographed, that could be smaller and easier to read? Could we have videos so we could see you, as well as hear?” This required continually upgrading office and media machines. Requests reached a stage where there was a three-year waiting list to have a Light Study with J-R. So we asked, “Is it possible for you to charge more for your services and quit being a school teacher so we can have more of your time?” Back then he charged only $35 for a Light Study, saying he’d do it for nothing, but he knew that people valued more what they paid for.

But we were asking to pay more, knowing he had to eat, pay a mortgage, etc. If he quit being a schoolteacher to spend more time with us, he’d still have to pay expenses—which included expensive things such as airfare to visit MSIA people out of the L.A. area, etc.

People asked, “Could there be a place where some of us could live together as a community?” So he started looking for a place—and that’s how what became known as the Purple Rose Ashram of the New Age (also known as “Prana”) came into being. Today it’s known as the historically preserved and beautiful Peace Awareness Labyrinth and Gardens.
What J-R would also do is observe and model things such as personal growth trainings—transforming them into experiential events that would evoke the heart, forgiveness and deepening self-awareness. They were (and still are) wonderful vehicles for awakening. For instance, the PATs, the University of Santa Monica (initially known as Koh-e-nor University, referring to the Mountain of Light) and Insight.

J-R said he never wanted to create a business. Nevertheless, his love was so great that he was willing to give us what we asked for, when he could. He was always monitoring everything so that it was as clean and balanced as possible.

NDH: How do you see your ministry?

Rama: When I had my Ministerial Ordination (which J-R gave me in 1972), it contained a Blessing—that Spirit was giving me the discernment to know the difference between illusion and God. At the time, I didn’t understand how huge that was. Additionally he said that my ministry was to glorify That which is God, That which is The Light, That which is The Sound. It didn’t refer to a specific task or talent as I understood it. Other people ordained right after me were receiving Blessings stating specific things, such as, “Yours is a blessing of healing” or “yours is a blessing of music.” I felt like everyone else had these great ministries…but I was a kind of nobody, with nothing specific to give.

NDH: Mine is like that, too—“Just stay open, the Light will shine through you; the Light will do the work.” It’s like there’s nothing to do, just stay open.

Rama: Did you also have the sense of yours not being a big, significant thing?

NDH: Exactly the same. Simple and to the point.

Rama: With the unfolding of time, I’ve come to recognize a great clue within the Ordination. They all state “regardless of race, creed, color, situation, circumstance or environment.” Part of what this indicates to me is: as we awaken, we come to recognize more and more that everything/everyone is God…that The Divine resides in all…and as ministers of MSIA, we are blessed to be conduits of Light without reservation.

For me, this means regardless of how anything or anyone may appear—we are charged to send the Light For the highest good. The Light blesses and transforms ALL things to higher frequencies. And, as many of us experience, when we send The Light…we receive it, as well.

On J-R’s out-of-town visits, after he would do seminars and Light Studies, he’d take a car trip to relatively nearby areas. As so many of us have experienced in the subsequent years, a great aspect of J-R’s ministry was to visit places, bringing the Light, lifting karma and placing Light Columns. In the early 1970’s he began to physically spread this activity across the planet. My first venture abroad with him was in 1975 on a six-week long trip to India.

NDH: Will you describe your experience of some of his methods of teaching?

Rama: J-R never pretended he was “perfect” every minute of the day. He allowed both his humanity and the Traveler consciousness to manifest. This made it so much easier when we could relate to him being human and imperfect. Therefore, it wasn’t entirely remote that we, too, could reach into the Traveler Consciousness, because we certainly weren’t perfect. In my view, if he’d appeared “perfect,” it would’ve seemed nearly impossible for us to hope to reach our higher being.
I also became exceedingly grateful that he wouldn’t say, “Okay, kids, in this moment I’m manifesting the Traveler Consciousness. Now watch my consciousness shift as I manifest the illusion of human consciousness.” He told us how to recognize the Traveler Consciousness, but he didn’t let us know when he was going to enact either one. Therefore it was our responsibility to determine the difference. How masterful is that!? For me, that was incredible. I witnessed, through my many years, a number of individuals not getting what he was demonstrating. It seemed to me as though they would do the “either-or” kind of thinking—either J-R is The Mystical Traveler or if he acts human that invalidates his being a spiritual master. They didn’t understand what was being done and that he was saying. “It’s up to you. You learn how to do it. Don’t count on me doing it for you … because the power is in finding it in yourself.” That’s remarkable to me. I don’t even know how to quantify the mastery of that kind of teaching.

NDH: It sounds like he taught by example rather than just through words.

Rama: Definitely. An example of this was a time he and I were alone on a short trip. I was driving and J-R was sitting in the passenger seat. Seemingly out of nowhere, he mentioned the name of someone who was doing a great job of helping me set up MSIA appointments. However, when J-R mentioned this person, he surprisingly stated, “I wouldn’t trust them if I were you.” Well, there I was, thinking “this is not at all an example of speaking kind words. It seems gossipy and hypocritical. And what does he say about me behind my back?”

Regardless of what I was quietly thinking, I heard coming out of my mouth, “Yes, J-R, I understand what you’re looking at.” Well, that wasn’t at all true—and I felt repulsed that my compulsion for J-R’s approval superseded what my heart knew. With that, J-R looked at me with a long, intense look, saying nothing. Then he looked away. There was silence in the car, I felt just awful about myself—and silently angry at him for doing it.

Shortly thereafter he went back to L.A., and I was left dealing with that deeply disturbing experience that I didn’t dare admit to him. I knew without question he was my teacher—what was the question was how to handle inside of me what just happened. It took at least a month before it slowly dawned on me that he could have said directly to me, “Rama, too often you sacrifice the truth of what you know in order to please others. You avoid taking responsibility for what you know in your heart to be true. This gets in the way of you experiencing your own grace, strength and the validity of your own soul.”

Had he bluntly stated that, I would have been defensive, felt hurt and misunderstood. I would have blocked it out mentally and likely felt overwhelmed. Knowing me, the best thing he could have done was to come around the back door, give me the experience, and let me figure it out for myself. Wow! It was right on. My karma included attempting to please and be accepted by others so much that I’d often surrender my own highest good. It wasn’t as though I intentionally was a liar, it was that I was just trying so much to fit in, to be accepted. And all that did was further convince me that I had to keep doing it or I’d be rejected. God bless me, I was doing the best I knew how. I understood that how J-R approached helping me was an extraordinary expression of caring on his part, as well as a deeply empowering teaching.

NDH: And what’s amazing to me is that the teaching on the outer is such a small fraction of what goes on in the inner.

Rama: How true. In the second of my seven Light Studies, J-R told me, “You’re not known in the inner realms for doing your spiritual exercises.” The surety of how he said it let me know he knew. Now, how would he know that—because I certainly hadn’t admitted it to anyone? That was a wake-up to another depth of what J-R knew.

So I sat myself down and I did the HU. I chanted it inwardly until there was nothing but the HU. Then I got the inner direction to bring the chant all around me. That’s when the cosmic Sound Current kicked in. My experience was that chanting the HU is like a tuning fork. When one hits the tuning fork, it doesn’t sound like what a corresponding piano or guitar, etc., sounds like. But it attunes the individual to the actual tone, regardless of the instrument. That’s the closest thing that I can liken it to…and it’s the voice of God. No question.

Sometime later, while visiting J-R in Los Angeles, we were on our way to a seminar. Michael Sun was driving and J-R was, as always, sitting in the passenger seat. A few of us were sitting in the back…with me sitting behind J-R. I happily shared, “J-R, I heard The Sound Current.” Turning around to face me, he smiled, saying, “You know, not everyone gets to hear it like you have. I’m glad you heard it because now you know it’s real and you’ll always have that.” Then, with a twinkle in his eyes that only I could see, he dropped what seemed like a bombshell, “I’ve been thinking of doing something else besides MSIA. I’ve been offered a lot of money to do consulting for a large company.” Conversation in the car went dead quiet and I saw Michael’s hands tightened on the wheel. That moment was perfect timing, such that Michael missed the freeway exit for the seminar.

J-R turned to Michael and said in a voice sounding very displeased, “I only ask you to drive the car. I don’t ask you to do anything else but just drive the car. Do I have to do everything myself?” The knuckles on Michael’s clinched hands got whiter, his shoulders hunched down, his aura shrunk and the guys next to me started talking just to fill the awkward space. I sat there realizing I wasn’t witnessing this just by accident; I was being given a teaching. All of us were, each in our own way. After Michael turned the car around and we were back on track, J-R turned to him and gently sighed, “Michael, when are you going to learn not to react to what I do or say—and hold in your own strength?”

I witnessed many events like this throughout the years. To me, they were eloquent, amazingly profound lessons, demonstrating what he had been saying all along. It’s about a person taking responsibility for their own awakening. We each have to reach for our own inheritance of awakening, ourselves. That’s where the power is.

One of the things that J-R made clear many times was that some of us will not have visions or extraordinary inner experiences because it’s a necessary part that person’s journey to attune to an inner knowing. For someone like me, I don’t know why I’ve had the experiences like when I was three and a half years old and in the closet, or when I drowned or when I heard the Sound Current. I know with all of my heart that these had nothing to do with me being “special.” For whatever reason, they were all a necessary parts of my journey —possibly because I was one of many chosen to share such things with others. I don’t know the purpose of the experiences I’ve had, other than I can vouch from my own personal experiences so much of what J-R has shared.

As we sit here, David, I’m getting that it’s okay to tell you an experience I had on the great Outer Realms. This was soon after my Soul initiation. I was meditating (which I had learned to love). I found myself in a formless space and suspended before me, with no visual support, was an enormous, glowing, gold curved sword blade. It appeared to be about 24 inches at its deepest part and about 15 feet long, narrowing to a point at each end. It didn’t have a handle at either end! It radiated an energetic field of being so sharp that anything touching it would be instantly shredded. It was The Sword of Judgment. The clear message I heard was, “He who wields the Sword of Judgment is the one who receives the greatest harm because it has no handle; no safe means of using it. Understand…and wield not.” It was magnificent in its divinely manifest beauty. When I asked J-R for verification (which I always did regarding such experiences), he confirmed that was what it was.

A couple of months after seeing The Sword of Judgment, also during meditation, there spontaneously appeared in space before me a colossal “Purple Rose, which also resembled a lotus flower. J-R had spoken of it throughout the years. Each elliptical shaped petal was made of living purple Light—in which all shades of purple exist, from deepest magenta to ultra-violet. On the perimeter of each petal, the lights were ultra-vivid, electrifying purple…and in motion. Some moving in one direction (like clockwise), some in another (like counter-clockwise). They were all connected in the center, which radiated diamond-white brilliance. Each ellipse was an actual universe. The center was where infinity/the eternal now/all oneness/all being is undiluted. Deep within the Center resides the “seat” of the Preceptor. The Traveler moves in and through all the universes. The knowledge and recognition of this was given to me by direct knowing.

My palms are sweating right now as I’m sharing this with you, David. To review these things brings forward the energy of the experiences.

Of course, I wrote J-R and he verified that my interpretation was accurate. He said, “Very few people see this.” Other than J-R, I spoke to no one about it—it was too sacred. Decades later it came up in my consciousness to ask if it was time to share about it. And J-R gave me permission to write about it and (after he checked it out, giving the article his OK) had Betsy Alexander submit it to the New Day Herald. The article goes into greater detail.

At one of the last MSIA conferences J-R attended, during the Ministers’ Meeting, I had another “Preceptor experience.” I was never picked to sit in the front row and I’m not one of the people who run in to grab a seat close up. I just come in and sit. To my bewildered surprise, someone told me, “We’ve got a reserved seat for you in the front row.” J-R came on the stage and sat in a chair off to the side, right smack in front of me. He didn’t say a word the whole time he sat there with his head down, eyes closed.

From my close vantage point, I started noticing a sort of movement with J-R. It wasn’t as though he turned into something else, but I could tell there was some sort of energy subtly moving his form. I asked inwardly, “What am I seeing?” It somehow became clear that the Preceptor had come and taken over J-R’s entire body, manifesting for all to see, if they chose. I perceived it as an inverted pyramid—such that the tip of a vast consciousness was funneling into J-R’s physical form. I wrote him about that and, again, he verified what I saw.

NDH: What’s your sense of what the future holds for you on your spiritual journey and your journey on this planet?

Rama: My spiritual journey is for certain—such that in following the Traveler I KNOW beyond all questioning I am lined up to the highest/the all…and that for me love is the master key. As for my journey on the physical planet…I don’t know what it holds. We all know life presents “options” that teach us. I can share with you what I discovered is an effective guide toward the goals of my heart while moving through life here. And it works great when I remember to use it.

I find that every one of us has inside the gift of a special sort of “compass.” Whether or not we use it is up to each of us, individually. For instance, in this physical universe, what mankind had dubbed “the North Star” holds a constant position and has been used for millennia by global travelers to set their courses. So, if the North Star, itself, was our ultimate destination…and we were journeying toward it, we might not always know if we were drifting “off” or “on” course until it became undesirably obvious.

Utilizing our inner compass helps to determine the choices we make, the courses we set intentionally or not. It doesn’t tell us “yes” or “no,” nor does it say, “Do this” or “don’t do that.” But it definitely is a fail-safe guidance system when we know how and choose to use it.

For instance, I may believe something is absolutely true and I may be experiencing righteous belief regarding how I wish to or “should” act upon it. I may feel completely accurate in my perceptions and whatever action seems appropriate. However, if I align it with the inner compass, I will receive the indication as to whether my choice leads to the goal of my heart by determining, “Is this (action/belief/feeling) bringing me closer to loving—which would be moving more toward the North Star—or further away from it? Closer to oneness—or more toward separation? More joy—or less joy? More peace—or less peace?” The answer comes from within.

The Inner Master holds what I varyingly refer to as “the golden compass, the inner compass or the GPS of the Soul.” It’s fail-safe. I’ve never asked a question like that where I didn’t get the guidance. Now, it could be that the action that I was going to enter into might be fine, but it was the attitude with which I was attempting it that was steering me away from the loving, or Spirit. If I want to do an action, hold a belief or perpetuate a feeling, it’s up to me to determine how it can then move me even more in line with the North Star of my being. It’s not about being right or wrong, loving or not loving, because love is infinite…there’s always more of it. There’s always greater oneness. It’s about moving closer to or away from. For me, this “compass” is an extraordinary treasure and gift. All of us have it, whether we’ve noticed it or not. It’s part of our inheritance as a soul.

The words heard within may be different, like it may not indicate “more loving” or “less loving”—it might suggest determining if it leads to “greater oneness or less oneness?” Or something similar. The Inner Master will bring forward the words. Just listen. It’ll be about “more or less, or “closer to or further from” one’s true heart. It’s typically the qualities of more loving or less loving, oneness or separation, peace or less peace, joy or less joy, etc.

The space industry reports that when they launched ships to the moon, they were off course about 90 percent of the time.

Getting there was simply a matter of continual course correction. Just like our journeys.

NDH: Is there anything else that comes to mind as we come to the end of this interview?

Rama: Thank you, David, for affording me the blessing of sharing some of my experiences with our beloved J-R. Throughout the years, so many of us in MSIA have had the privilege and blessing of knowing him to be a remarkably beautiful human being, who has given his entire life to be our wayshower. His life was a living example of what he taught. Although he is no longer with us physically, he seems to be all the more present with us inwardly. And he has wisely and lovingly turned over the mantle of the Traveler consciousness to John Morton, who is, himself, a shining example of being both human and an extraordinarily wise, loving and humble master.

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