This Q&A with John-Roger was first published in the Movement Newspaper in 1972
QUESTION: Would you explain the phrase, “the dark night of the Soul?”
J-R: The phrase “the dark night of the Soul” is a metaphysical term that l think was coined into modern day consciousness by St. John of the Cross. The Soul, first of all, has to be recognized as a perfect quality–a perfect energy. The other things surrounding the Soul are not-perfect. These imperfections have surrounded the Soul and removed it from its active, directive, God-divine function.
The Soul itself is the only positive thing on this level; the mind and the emotions are negative (not bad, but negative like the negative pole of a battery); the positive pole of the battery is the Soul.
When the process of evolution or involution has reached a certain state, then the Soul becomes quickened with Light energy patterns. Up to this point, the mind has been the “captor” of the Soul, when it really should be a tool through which the Soul can express. But the mind can become very strong, and we can give everything over to it and function within the concept of universal mind consciousness, which is a God of the negative realms. So there is a struggle of who is going to assert dominion within this level of consciousness called the physical form.
The Soul, as an ultimate entity, will win; but the mind, as a transitory function, hangs on for dear life–it’s almost like the fight between the negative self and the true Self. And this becomes a trial. The more a person will fight, the more he will give energy into the negative realms. The most effective way to activate the positive energy is the “resist not evil” approach, resist not temptation–let it go–don’t get involved. If you put up a fight and struggle with your mind, trying to activate the Soul, you’re going at it backwards. This would be like trying to have the wheels of the car activate the throttle.
It is this struggle between the negative and positive aspects of an individual that people have dubbed as “the dark night of the Soul.” It can be two or three years long or twenty years long; or if you understand what’s going on, you can eclipse it rapidly and have what has been known as a “spiritual illumination” and a great cosmic consciousness will flood through you. Well, this is the way people write about it, but they don’t really tell you about the “ingrown toenails” or the “hangnails” or whatever, before the illumination, because that seems like it really didn’t count. When that cosmic consciousness does flood forward, it’s like EUREKA–thunder and lightning. But how many incarnations were there prior to that thunder and lightning? Probably many.
We don’t all approach this life’s experiences equally. It would be nice to say we all do, but it’s just not true at all. We approach it in un-equal ways–asserting different levels of awareness and consciousness and desire and expectation.
QUESTION: Why did we first incarnate? What brought us here?
J-R: This level is a part of God’s kingdoms, part of the spiritual hierarchy, part of God’s body. The Soul was set forth to experience all levels of God in His Consciousness, and so as part of this, it experiences this level also. How each one got into this plane varies tremendously. The “original” plan was set up for “seven” incarnations. The reason it was set up for that was that there was a certain karma set forward for this planet.
The story is told of Adam and Eve–that the human being would earn his way by the sweat of his brow; and a lot of patterns were brought forward to fulfill the idea of work. And in an extremely symbolic way, the karma that everyone would have to walk through was delineated.
But people created a lot of extraneous thought forms and actions and patterns which were not necessary to the original plan, and they have really polluted the spiritual worlds with these. Some of us are coming back in, attempting to handle these previously-created thought forms, and we are creating more garbage, in our attempt to do this. This is sometimes called depression and irritation. Our job here is to transmute these negative patterns that come in. When we get a down feeling or a negative thought, we should work to transmute it in Light and put it back out as Light.
Some of the metaphysical churches understand this idea and they are doing this. They have twenty-four hour prayer vigils, blessing all things and putting out Light and love. They’ll win. Doing it that way, it may take a long time, but that’s okay; they have a lot of people. And every Light group, every group or individual that asks for the Light of God for the highest good of mankind, praying and asserting goodwill and brotherhood, will help clean out the negative forces that we feel on this planet and will help lift the planet into higher consciousness.
QUESTION: What is the purpose of existence after reaching the highest realm?
J-R: For the most part, the goal of every manifesting Soul on the planet is to become a co-creator with God. In one sense, God needs us as much as we need God. He needs us in the physical-material world consciousness, because that’s how God gets things done on this level. He works through us in this world. The human body and consciousness are prime receptors for this level; they are what the Soul uses to transport itself here.
But on the other levels, there are a lot of jobs that you might be assigned to fulfill. You could work in another dimension, another universe. If you have elevated yourself in a certain way within a certain schooling pattern, you could just live within a section of the higher realms of Light, where a lot of equally-evolved Souls live. It’s awfully hard to put words on this kind of action. As soon as I try, it sounds like a lie because I’m trying to put into vocabulary that which is beyond words. I’m really trying to give you the feeling of it, the essence of it, hoping you’ll by-pass the intellectual confusion and reach in to see the reality of it.
QUESTION: You mentioned something about the mind. At a very early age, I had an experience of hearing voices and of astral projection. Now, I read somewhere recently that the mind is very powerful and that a lot of times these things are merely projections of one’s own desires. Is this true?
J-R: Absolutely. The mind is extremely powerful. Often, it is worshipped and adored. A lot of these experiences are projected out of the unconscious or the etheric part of the mind with which most of us are really not too familiar; then they shoot ahead to the emotions and the conscious mind, and you “see” it “out there” and say, “I saw a vision! Hooray!” And that’s fine. If it works for you, go ahead and use it. I wouldn’t presume to say “Yes, you did have that experience” or “No, you didn’t” – you decide because you are living it. My point of view is: So what? You keep going.
People have said to me, “I think you have a big illusion going.” My answer is, “One of the biggest on the planet. But don’t worry about it. If it is an illusion, we’ll be out of it because we are going on; we are going to keep moving. We’re not so dumb that we think we’re the only way or that this is it, or that there’s no further to go.” It is important to recognize that progression is infinite. There are no limits to growth.
Baruch Bashan
Thank you,JR!
I want to have heaven on earth and heaven when I die