{"id":110238,"date":"2020-11-19T13:23:20","date_gmt":"2020-11-19T21:23:20","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/?p=110238"},"modified":"2020-11-19T18:00:14","modified_gmt":"2020-11-20T02:00:14","slug":"the-mystical-traveler-is-one-who-knows-interview-with-john-roger-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/archives\/110238-the-mystical-traveler-is-one-who-knows-interview-with-john-roger-part-2","title":{"rendered":"The Mystical Traveler is One Who Knows — Interview with John-Roger, Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"

In transcending the Soul into consciousness of God, there is no delineation of individuality — only the oneness, the completeness of God, and there we can become a co-creator with God by being God and extending down to many other levels to create. <\/em>– John-Roger <\/p>\n

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This Q&A with John-Roger was first published in the Movement Newspaper, October 1976<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

In 1976, John-Roger was interviewed on Innervisions, a radio program conducted by Jacob Blass in Santa Barbara, California.\u00a0 This is Part 2 of that Interview.<\/em><\/p>\n

INNERVISIONS:\u00a0 \u00a0You’ve told us that one of the aims of the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness is Soul Transcendence.\u00a0 I’m wondering if you’d give a definition of that.<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 Well, let’s define Soul first.\u00a0 We can’t really do that because it’s invisible, but let’s call it the true self, or the essence of God in the physical body, or that extension of Spirit that is individualized and can be aware of itself.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Which means it’s in the physical body.<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0Yes, it resides within the body.\u00a0 It’s not the body, but it extends through levels of the body as vehicle to find out this part of God’s levels of bodies.\u00a0 So that would be the thing called Soul that lives when the body dies or keeps the body going when it is sound asleep and the mind is supposedly not there and the emotions are quiet. \u00a0That’s the energy unit we call Soul.\u00a0 As for transcendence, if we’re referring to Soul travel, then we’re saying to travel in the Soul.\u00a0 But in transcending the Soul into consciousness of God, there is no delineation of individuality — only the oneness, the completeness of God, and there we can become a co-creator with God by being God and extending down to many other levels to create.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Well, transcending means a journey on one level, of going one place to another.\u00a0 Where does the trip start?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0The trip always starts here and now — no matter when that time appears, and we make it by focusing our attention.\u00a0 And often we want to see God, we want to know.\u00a0 I don’t want to take J-R’s word for it, or Jake’s, or anybody else’s.\u00a0 I want to know.\u00a0 Well, here are some procedures.\u00a0 See if these procedures help you know.\u00a0 And part of the procedure may be silting down, learning to find out what is the body, what is the imagination, what are the emotions, what is the mind.\u00a0 When you find out, you say, “who knows, all that?”\u00a0 You say.\u00a0 “Well, I do,”\u00a0 That’s the part we want to work with now.\u00a0 When we know what the rest is, the part that’s left is called the Soul or you or the great I Am.\u00a0 It’s been called a lot of things, Christ, cosmic, Buddha.\u00a0 Let’s not get hung up on the word level.\u00a0 But that’s the part we want to work with, to have it transcend this level so that it re-cognizes its oneness with God.\u00a0 So it’s not really in a state of “ignorance”\u00a0 or “evil,”\u00a0 it’s in a state of unification.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 How can I or anybody else learn to identify the movement of that consciousness within me?\u00a0 How can I feel or know something that I’m experiencing on that level?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0Well if an individual just happened to have this happen spontaneously somewhere on the planet, they’d probably lock him up.\u00a0 If they were in a group that was involved in something similar, the group would be supportive and hold him, saying you’ve broken through, you’re in the next level.\u00a0 Esalen did a lot of this work quite a few years ago when people were breaking through.\u00a0 The group was supportive, and even though it might look like a person had gone crazy, they had just broken through a level and they were trying to re-adapt to a new form of behavior, that would still be compatible with the previous behavior, but not the same:\u00a0 so they could function here or be functional.\u00a0 When a person says, “I would like to get into this,”\u00a0 we’d tell them to come to a seminar and learn the techniques and then practice the techniques.\u00a0 There are no magic wands — at least I haven’t found any.\u00a0 And even though you can extend a great deal from the Traveler Consciousness to someone who wants to study with it, we actually become saviors of ourselves by taking that step forward to doing it.\u00a0 And when we step forward, then that other consciousness meets with us and starts validating the experience.\u00a0 So when you start to have the experience of these other levels, the Traveler Consciousness validates it for you.\u00a0 People communicate their experiences to me and I explain it in more detail to them.\u00a0 Often they had forgotten the detail I explain.\u00a0 It’s like, “Oh, then that was real.”\u00a0 We say, “Well, it’s all real — it just happened to be in the invisible.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Where were you when it happened?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0I could have been any number of places within their levels of consciousness in the out-of-body experience.\u00a0 When they’re having an experience within their own body such as blood running through their veins, I don’t validate that.\u00a0 I say “That’s yours.\u00a0 You were doing that, so you decide what you want to do with that.”\u00a0 When it’s an experience that I’m involved with in spirit, through the Traveler Consciousness, we’re alleviating negativity and learning the higher levels of consciousness.\u00a0 Often I am the perpetrator of the action that took place to release the negativity.\u00a0 I’m like the one who runs the machine and all they saw was the machine, but somebody pushed the button to turn the machine on.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 I’m curious about the way you work when you say you’re the perpetrator of it.\u00a0 Are you there in your physical body saying it’s time we gave Charlie Smith a shot of some medicine?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0While my physical body is in bed, or in a car, or in a movie, or sitting reading a book, my consciousness is there.\u00a0 And while I’m in the physical body reading that book or just meditating, I’m aware of these other levels going on, but there’s no need to focus on the body because it’s taking care of itself.\u00a0 While we’re talking, there’s no need to focus on your toe and the blood going through it; it’s taking care of itself.\u00a0 It’s already set up that way.\u00a0 So you don’t have to keep refocusing on it.\u00a0 But when you get up to walk, if your foot had gone to sleep, you’ll focus energy on it and kick it and stomp it to bring the blood in it to make it come back to normal position for you.\u00a0 You’re just more physically aware of it at this point, but it doesn’t make any difference.\u00a0 It doesn’t make any difference what level I’m on.\u00a0 What does make a difference is what level the person is on that I’m working with.\u00a0 And it doesn’t matter who I am, but who are you?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 I guess a person who would, in their mind, be giving up a large amount of responsibility to another person, and saying okay, I accept you as my teacher, they would like to know who that person is.<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0But they don’t give up any responsibilities when they do that.\u00a0 Because people said to me \u201cokay, J-R, I give it all up to you\u201d and I say, “Fine, would you please handle this area you just gave up to me?”\u00a0 And I don’t get it all caught up in the mish-mash of the glamour and the illusion of the planet and I’ll assist you.\u00a0 When they realize it’s not theirs, often they take better care of it, because I don’t want the owner to come by and see when I’ve done a terrible job with their things.\u00a0 And, actually, they say “I’m so much better with it because I’m neutral, I don’t own it but it’s yours and I’m really just taking care of it.”\u00a0 And that’s fine, that’s really responsible, but who are they doing it for?\u00a0 Themselves.\u00a0 So when a person gives up to me they’re really giving up to their own individuality, to become responsible for that.\u00a0 And if they don’t, it’ll just beat them in the head.\u00a0 So in a sense, they don’t give anything up to me.\u00a0 I am more, of a reflector, like somebody who is a wayshower.\u00a0 I show the signs and I read the signs for them, and I say \u201cif you want to walk ahead you’re following the muck and mire, or you can go down this trail.\u00a0 Here are the signs, which one do you want to follow?\u201d\u00a0 They say, \u201cOh, I think I’d like to see what the muck and mire are about.\u201d\u00a0 I say \u201cokay, right here.\u201d\u00a0 I stand by them, and when they get into the muck and mire they may realize they got beyond their ability level.\u00a0 When they ask for help, I just start pulling them back out.\u00a0 Sometimes the muck sticks.\u00a0 Then you have to do a lot of repair work before they get back on the trail.\u00a0 Well, since that’s part of the Traveler’s consciousness, it does that also.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 What happens to the Traveler Consciousness when you die?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0Who’s the “you”\u00a0 that you’re referring to?\u00a0 Oh, my physical body.\u00a0 When the physical body dies, that Traveler Consciousness will be given over to somebody else in the physical body.\u00a0 Traditionally, it is called the mantel or the rod of power or the spiritual Light or the Word of God.\u00a0 Spirit refers to it as Nam.\u00a0 It’s given to another individual so that the Consciousness is here on this level also.\u00a0 Well, it wouldn’t be the Traveler Consciousness if it wasn’t on all levels.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Which means that it was given to you.\u00a0 How long does the line of people having the Mystical Traveler Consciousness go back?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0From the very beginning of any existence, there has always been a Traveler with this energy on these levels.\u00a0 Part of that time, there were no levels here.\u00a0 In other words, when creation was created, the Word was what created it and that Word is the Sound of God or this Nam that is the Traveler Consciousness.\u00a0 And creation is set now — it’s just running itself through.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0That’s a heavy one.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I’m just going to let that one go by.\u00a0 The word “karma” has been bandied around a lot, and everybody who’s familiar with it has their own conception of what it is.\u00a0 Can you give us some illumination into the workings of karma?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0Karma does mean quite a few things to a lot of people.\u00a0 To people who are spiritually evolved, spiritual masters, it means guidelines, reference points of how to work with the individual.\u00a0 To the individual who is in the karma, it often means the inability to do.\u00a0 To those people watching the person with their karma, it’s often called “action.”\u00a0 “You did it, that’s your action.\u00a0 I heard you do it.\u00a0 Why did you do it?”\u00a0 They say, “Well, I just couldn’t help myself.”\u00a0 So it’s perceived as guidelines, as inability, and often as reaction or action.\u00a0 The approach to it should be that of dharma, selfless duty.\u00a0 You don’t beat your head against it, you move and do that which you can do.\u00a0 Often, in that stepping back from the tree that we beat our heads against, we can see the pathway through the forest.\u00a0 Then our approach becomes active or self-directed, not reactive.<\/p>\n

In Soul consciousness, we get above the forest and see where the trail is, and what’s in there, and we walk very happily through the forest being of service, knowing we can get out, knowing there’s nothing in there that we can’t handle.\u00a0 Karma, on the other hand, is going through it in fear of the darkness, creating monsters that don’t exist.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 How is the information from the dream state relayed from those states of consciousness to this state of consciousness?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0Sometimes by a feeling of “deja vu” — I’ve done this before and know that it works out.\u00a0 This is a sense of knowing.\u00a0 You just know.\u00a0 The other would be intuitive.\u00a0 You could guess it through pretty well, like seeing a movie, saying that the butler did it.\u00a0 You know the movie just started but it turns out the butler did it.\u00a0 So in one way, you’re not worried about the movie, you know what is going to happen; and you can enjoy it all the way through, knowing what the answer is.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Within the workings of karma is the concept of `’reincarnation” — that people are coming onto this planet with specific things that have to be worked out.\u00a0 On what level is it being planned that these things are to be worked out?\u00a0 Who’s doing the planning?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0Well, this gets into the really phantasmagorical approach –\u00a0 I’ll see if we can do it by thumbnail sketch.\u00a0 Let’s say that you die from this level and you go into Spirit; and when you leave here, the level to which your intellect has grown in Light awareness is where you automatically go in Spirit.\u00a0 At that point, you meet with what we call “karmic members,”\u00a0 or the “Karmic Board.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 These are actual beings?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0Yes, actual beings of consciousness.\u00a0 Call them angels if you’d like, or guardians or ambassadors.\u00a0 With them, you review that life and what the Soul came in to work in the past.\u00a0 The Soul would then automatically evaluate its success.\u00a0 Based upon the success level it achieved, it would determine what it would be doing in another lifetime.\u00a0 Then you would blueprint it; that’s when free will is utilized.\u00a0 There are all sorts of variables.\u00a0 If you saw a blueprint of a Soul’s incarnation, it would boggle your mind.\u00a0 Computers here couldn’t handle all the variables.\u00a0 And then you embody.\u00a0 Some people call it reincarnation, but you only incarnate once and then you may re-embody.\u00a0 When you\u2019re here, you exercise your choices.\u00a0 Free will happens only when you\u2019re more highly evolved, because only God has free will.\u00a0 So when you make your will the same as God\u2019s, it\u2019s free.\u00a0 But prior to that, you do the individuality — I usually call it \u201cwon\u2019t power”\u00a0 instead of will power \u2013 \u201cI won\u2019t do this–no, I won\u2019t do that and you cant make me.”\u00a0 In the free choice level, you can make a lot of choices and they\u2019re all free.\u00a0 Whichever one you make, though, institutes the next choices that come up.\u00a0 And we\u2019re held responsible for them, whether we like it or not.\u00a0 A lot of people don’t want to believe that, but all they have to do to prove it is look at their lives.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Most of the ideas we’ve been discussing are ideas that we’re here to move ourselves upward, and to move into what we call “Soul Transcendence”\u00a0 or “Soul travel.”\u00a0 To me, on one level that means the whole — everything going on is basically to leave these levels and go to higher levels.\u00a0 How can one be in this world and be involved in everything in this world, and yet be detached enough from it to be able to go into a higher level of consciousness?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> Well, I’m not too sure you can be involved in everything in this level.\u00a0 I think part of our responsibility in exercising free will is to not try to go to four dances in one night, and go to a smorgasbord and eat a little bit of everything that’s on the table.\u00a0 We exercise discrimination, selectivity of what we want to be involved in and what we’re going to get out of it and the length of time involved.<\/p>\n

Often people say, “I couldn’t handle it — I got out of it.”\u00a0 Well, getting out may have been the only way they could have handled it.\u00a0 That’s handling it.\u00a0 People say that’s a cop-out, but we’ve got to watch out so that we don’t define ourselves into a poor attitude.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Within that selectivity, do you have any guidelines that you could recommend in terms of when to know when to go into something and to have the experience of going into it, even though you know it’s going to be a heavy one — as opposed to saying, “I don’t want anything to do with that,”\u00a0 and walking away from it?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah, I would say get into the Soul body, transcend the physical, take a look at it and see what it is, and then move back and walk through it.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 How about another way to do it?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> Well, then you can use your crystal ball or Ouija board, or just do what we do in a lot of religions — have faith, and call upon the higher power through the process of prayer; attune to it and walk through it, knowing that nothing will be given to you that you really can’t handle — that God is the one who’s really running all the mechanisms, and out of God comes all things.\u00a0 There’s a great security in that.\u00a0 It’s like, “Hey, even my insecurities come out of God.\u00a0 How neat.\u00a0 What am I to learn from this?”\u00a0 That security is not on this level, only in God.\u00a0 You move to it and you say, “Thanks for the lesson.”\u00a0 I look at this particular level as a classroom.\u00a0 And the rest reveals to us what we have to learn next — not to reveal our failure to us, but to reveal to us where we lacked preparation, where we really weren\u2019t thoroughly up on what was going on.\u00a0 And we get a chance to see what it is.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, one of the things that you say quite often is very meaningful to me — that our experiences are like stepping stones or stumbling blocks.\u00a0 That certainly helped me a lot to realize that they’re just taking me up to the next level, upward, rather than having to trip over something.<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0Yes, a lot of people say sometimes, “What about that negative experience?\u00a0 What’s so good about that?”\u00a0 Well, you use it as a reference point to never go into those levels again, and that’s good.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

IN:\u00a0\u00a0 Why is it that probably 99% of the people don’t have a recognition of their Soul or of the action that takes place on these other levels of consciousness in blueprinting the life plan?<\/p>\n

J-R:<\/strong> \u00a0When we’re in Spirit and see how clear and easy it is, we have the confidence to take on a crippled body or a blind body — it seems like a snap.\u00a0 “I’m only going to be there fifty years — that’s easy.”\u00a0 Looking at all eternity, it’s like a snap of the finger.\u00a0 In those upper levels, we can see all the variables; our attitude is extremely positive.\u00a0 There’s nothing we can’t do — we are God.<\/p>\n

Then we re-embody and pick up other levels of consciousness called “sheaths” or “bodies.”\u00a0 Each one dims the spiritual vision, until we finally arrive in the physical level without the spiritual vision per se.\u00a0 The mind is not in the Spirit, so there is no memory of the Spirit in the mind — the mind was not there, the Soul was there.\u00a0 The mind is in the lesser level.\u00a0 The emotions weren’t there, so we don’t feel it.\u00a0 The physical body wasn’t there, so it doesn’t know it.\u00a0 So we come into this level, and there’s no record here of it; there’s no way to know.\u00a0 It was purposefully set up that way so that we would then gain the strength of Soul consciousness; because even though the Soul is perfect, it hasn’t necessarily been tried to find that it’s got all it’s power going.\u00a0 But if that power becomes useful to it, so will-power or free will become useful rather than negative towards us.\u00a0 And the negative will-power sets up more blocks and illusions because it’s also creating out of the level of Spirit.<\/p>\n

So we’re creating all the time; we’re either promoting, creating, or allowing everything that’s happening to us.\u00a0 We even allow annoying things to happen until we realize that we don’t need them anymore.\u00a0 Then we move to another level, and we are able to change patterns of procedure by switching the attitude.\u00a0 If you walk into the ocean up to your neck, you know that if you’re going to get out, there’s primarily one way to do it, and that’s the same way you went in.\u00a0 Just walk out.\u00a0 But if you keep focusing on the car and what you’re going to do when you get home and rest, it’ll make the walk out much easier.\u00a0 If you look at the water, you can get lost again in negativity; because there are very few reference points, and the tides finally pull you out deeper.\u00a0 Your attitude causes you to lose your focus. \u00a0Keep focusing upon the car or the spirit of it.\u00a0 Or, most importantly, why didn’t you leave before you got so exhausted, so that you had your reserve there?\u00a0 Instead, you waited until you were so exhausted that you didn’t know how to get out, and then a boat had to come to get you.\u00a0 It’s called the Traveler.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

CLICK HERE<\/a> TO READ PART 1<\/p>\n

WATCH A SHORT VIDEO WITH JOHN-ROGER ON SOUL TRANSCENDENCE
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