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100% Living & Dying With John-Roger<\/strong> |\u00a0Part 1 of 2 Part Interview with John Morton<\/strong><\/p>\n NDH:<\/strong> What\u2019s it like working with J-R?<\/p>\n John Morton:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d have to answer that as it applies to right now. I\u2019m looking for the superlatives. It\u2019s a deep question because now he\u2019s not really in a body. So that\u2019s obviously different. I have a lot of reference points about when he was here with us physically. But the real key is my experience from his passing\u2014that is, what it would be like working with him after he passed.<\/p>\n He spoke of that really clearly and long ago. And my experience is that it is more powerful now because he had a 10% level (the level of physical existence), and now his 90% (the spiritual level) is 100%. In our teachings when you go from 90 to 100, there\u2019s something about that gradient that keeps going higher. The power and ability you\u2019d need to go from 95 to 95.5 might take the same energy that it took to go from 65 to 95. It\u2019s more intense.<\/p>\n I see that what happened in 1963 was an advent of the Traveler consciousness, where it was determined spiritually that there was going to be another\u00a0dispensation. In that dispensation is the Preceptor, and that\u2019s of higher consciousness in its nature than the Traveler. J-R didn\u2019t have much to say about it because for the most part it didn\u2019t apply in this world. But then again it did because it was here. I think what was being done\u00a0was something that\u2019s very difficult to evaluate or even determine, because it happens about every 25,000 to 28,000 years. What is that? It\u2019s big, it\u2019s huge, it\u2019s gigantic, it\u2019s hard to measure, and it\u2019s something that doesn\u2019t happen in a single second. But then again maybe it does. The big bang supposedly happened in a single instant, so they can trace back to a moment when this reality came into being. There\u2019s a reality that we\u2019re in that is beyond our mind to comprehend. And there\u2019s a reality that is beyond that, so that even if we determined that everything in this reality came into being 13.7 billion years ago\u00a0in an instant, and everything came from that, and its density is beyond anything we know, so it\u2019s smaller than the smallest particle\u2014still, it is constantly expanding. Anything material that can be measured physically (like a galaxy) is in motion. There\u2019s nothing that\u2019s static. So this reality is done, but it\u2019s not finished in its evolvement. And we\u2019re in that as a Movement that transcends, because we\u2019re of a spiritual nature.<\/p>\n J-R brought in a consciousness that is the knowing of this. How would the creator advent itself, how would it manifest itself? It\u00a0would have a consciousness, an order. If we were capable of seeing the order, like someone who could see the Preceptor consciousness enough to know what it is, then we would have to be in some way beyond it so we could observe it in its wholeness, with altitude, and then be able to put it in terms that we could relate to. That would be called stepping itself down.<\/p>\n So, what\u2019s it like working with J-R? What\u2019s it like working with God? To me it\u2019s like the same question. Some people might say, come on, he was an ordinary guy, he bled, he farted. Am I saying he\u2019s God and we\u2019re not? I\u2019m not saying that, I\u2019m saying that in some way he was assigned the job to speak for God, or be God, or express what it is, and he articulated it, but in this very ordinary, down-to-earth way that many people would dismiss.<\/p>\n People go, \u201cIf he does that behavior, or talks like that, he\u2019s not God. God wouldn\u2019t do that.\u201d Well, what makes you think that? What if God comes down to earth and in a sense is like one of us, like in the song, \u201cWhat if God was one of us?\u201d And we\u2019re also God, but we just don\u2019t remember. There\u2019s the difference. J-R said many\u00a0times that the difference between me and you is that I forget a lot of things, like your name, but I never forget I\u2019m the Traveler. He was very emphatic and he said it very specifically several times, that \u201cI\u2019m the Traveler incarnate, or in the physical, and I have these keys that you don\u2019t have, and what they allow is that I\u2019m in connection.\u201d<\/p>\n So to me he was someone who was always winking. Then you ask, \u201cWhy are you winking at me?\u201d I have all kinds of\u00a0references, and they go on and on and on, and\u00a0ten times or a hundred times that much I\u2019ve also forgotten.<\/p>\n But they\u2019re somewhere here in my life experience and I don\u2019t remember. Once we were at Lake Arrowhead and we checked into a hotel for one of the retreats. I was unpacking J-R\u2019s suitcase and it was just J-R and me there. There were two rooms, a living room and a bedroom, and I went into the living room and he wasn\u2019t there. I went out to the relatively small parking lot that\u2019s fenced in, and J-R wasn\u2019t there. I went back into the living room and didn\u2019t see him. At some point I\u2019m looking under the bed, in the closets, in the shower, behind a chair, anywhere that his body could possibly be in the room. I looked in the office, all around outside\u2014and I did this at least three times. Then maybe the fourth time I walked back in the living room, and he\u2019s\u00a0sitting in a chair with a big grin on his face, and says, \u201cWhere have you been?\u201d I say, \u201cLooking for you.\u201d He says, \u201cI\u2019ve been here all along.\u201d I say, \u201cNo you weren\u2019t, because I looked in that chair.\u201d And it was one of those conversations, where I\u2019m starting to get goose bumps and my head is starting to wobble. I\u2019m going, \u201cOK, the only explanation is that you became something that I could not see physically.\u201d And he just says, \u201cI was sitting right here.\u201d<\/p>\n He didn\u2019t explain it. And that was part of how J-R would relate. He\u2019d take you so far and then it was like, \u201cYou figure it out.\u201d Very early on he said, \u201cI\u2019m not\u00a0your \u2018Shell answer man.\u2019 I\u2019m not here to just answer your questions. There are a lot of things I\u2019m doing that you\u00a0don\u2019t have any idea about, and I\u2019m not here to stop what I\u2019m doing and\u00a0have you interrupt things.\u201d It was like, curiosity is not cool. My attitude was, I can\u2019t help it, I\u2019m going to be curious\u00a0and wonder how he does that, but I realized that if I\u2019m going to work closely with him my place was not to pull on him.<\/p>\n Here\u2019s another example. This had to be within a month after I arrived at J-R\u2019s house at Mandeville. We\u2019d get J-R\u2019s newspaper and put it on the dining room table. Someone who was doing volunteer work there decided to open up the newspaper and read it. Later on J-R asked, \u201cWho\u2019s been reading the newspaper?\u201d It was like, \u201cHow do you know?\u201d J-R said, \u201cI can tell. Their vibe\u2019s all over it. I don\u2019t want that. If I read it I don\u2019t want to have to read their aura and whatever\u2019s going on for them while I\u2019m trying to read the newspaper.\u201d So that became one of my jobs, to make sure he got a clean newspaper.<\/p>\n I also came in while he was reading\u00a0the newspaper and I popped out a question about some mundane thing like what shirt I should pack\u00a0in his suitcase. He lifts his head up and says, \u201cI bet you think I\u2019m reading the newspaper.\u201d I can still feel the sinking feeling, like, \u201cYeah, I did think you were reading the newspaper.\u201d And J-R says, \u201cWas whatever you were asking about more important than what I was listening to when the Lord was talking to me?\u201d I felt like some thing on the floor at that point\u2026I\u2019m pausing because it still gets to me. I understood that this guy was playing at some unbelievable level that I was just so clueless about.<\/p>\n I would ask myself why I would be around working this closely when I didn\u2019t seem to have the sensitivity, the awareness, the perception, the clairvoyance, anything you want to call it, to be able to be properly attuned. But I just figured there was something about my willingness to serve\u2014I\u2019m going to claim that\u2014and my willingness I saw myself early on as someone who was just trying to help. And I felt like kind of a bungler, or thick\u00a0and insensitive, but I still had the willingness. And I knew that was a key. I knew that if I made an error\u00a0or if I stepped on\u00a0something I shouldn\u2019t have stepped on, there was a willingness to correct me (J-R was not hesitant to make that clear) and at times that was intense. It wasn\u2019t about, \u201cHow do\u00a0you feel about that?\u201d It was like, \u201cYou have the responsibility for\u00a0your feelings so if you think I\u2019m responsible for your hurt feelings, I\u2019m not. I need people who can deal with what we\u2019re doing here so nobody gets in the way of the work.\u201d He used to say that a lot: \u201cNobody gets in the way of the work. Including myself. I\u00a0don\u2019t get to get in the way of the work.\u201d That was the phrase\u2014\u201dthe\u00a0work\u201d and it referred to something that was bigger than all of us. We were all doing \u201cthe work.\u201d\u00a0I have a lot of those stories about what it\u2019s like working for J-R. I could go on all day, for days, talking about all kinds of ways I experienced working with J-R.<\/p>\n NDH:<\/strong> Did it change over the years? Did you feel like less of a \u201cbungler\u201d as it went on?<\/p>\n John Morton:<\/strong> Yeah I definitely learned a thing or two. I started at around the end of \u201878. \u00a0My intention was to get to J-R, to get to where he lived, to be close to this guy. When I had a meeting with him to listen to a tape of my ministerial ordination it went on for seven hours. At the<\/p>\n end he asked if I was hungry, and I said yes, and he asked me to come along to dinner. He asked where I was staying and I pointed to my car because all my things were in my car which was parked in the parking lot. And that\u2019s when he offered me the motor home that was on the property. Later on, when one of the staff left, I moved into a bedroom. I made a determination that I wasn\u2019t going to leave until I was asked to leave\u2014which violated how I wasn\u2019t asked to leave, and then other staff left, until at the beginning of 1988 it was just J-R and me. Then lo and behold, the next thing I\u2019m the president of MSIA in early 1988, and then a couple of months later J-R is asking if I\u2019m interested in being the next Traveler. My response was something like, \u201cIf I\u2019m helping you J-R. Whatever that means, I\u2019m in.\u201d He said Spirit was deciding this, and often that\u2019s how he would describe where these things were coming from. So clearly there was a difference when J-R was deciding it and when Spirit was deciding it. For the Traveler part, clearly Spirit was referenced as deciding this. So I filled out the application but I waited two or three weeks, and I\u2019m pretty certain that the other guys didn\u2019t fill out the application. I brought the application to J-R and I said if I\u2019m in some way making you sick and bringing the negative power into this house, then I\u2019ll go. He basically told me, \u201cThat\u2019s OK, what the negative power is doing is about finished. If I were you I\u2019d just stay out of the way. Just go on about your business.\u201d He said I didn\u2019t need to submit the application, it was just a way of seeing who was willing to cooperate and who wasn\u2019t.<\/p>\n That was probably around November of 1987. There was a lot of other stuff going on in the administration of MSIA at the time other than the focus of the work of Soul Transcendence. I considered that I took care of J-R and attended to him, but there was also a lot of work in the area of public relations and getting ready for the LA Times article, that kind of thing. That was in large part the area that I didn\u2019t agree with or understand. Over the years newspeople had asked to talk to us about our work and we would respond. But to make that the prime focus of our business, and try to prepare for what the newspeople might say and strategize a response, I just thought, \u201cThat\u2019s off.\u201d We needed to just focus on the work.<\/p>\n It was good work. People weren\u2019t disagreeing with what was going on in the work, they were finding fault with people\u2019s personalities and making things up about the purpose of the organization.<\/p>\n NDH:<\/strong> I have this image in my mind from around 1987 or \u201888. I had hitched a ride in a car that was part of J-R\u2019s caravan. I remember seeing you, and the sense I had was one of total dedication, and also exhaustion, like this is a<\/p>\n guy who\u2019s been going non-stop for years. But with a dedication that overrides any personal considerations. There was just this very strong, steady focus that was like, we\u2019re just going in this direction and everything else gets sacrificed.<\/p>\n John Morton:<\/strong> In 1988, when the president of MSIA (who had also been living and working with J-R since the early 1970\u2019s) and another staff member (who had been there for five years) both left at the same time, around February of \u201888, it was just J-R and me. I told J-R, \u201cI don\u2019t want any of the work to falter\u2014the seminars, the workshops, MSIA services. Rather than do any kind\u00a0of adjustment where we cut back, I\u2019d like to see if we can do what\u2019s already been planned.\u201d I remember the first trip that was up was Australia, with a pretty full schedule, and J-R agreed, and we brought in people who had just been learning to do services, we called whoever was available, and we went and did everything scheduled. I had such a great experience with that. I know that Paul Kaye and Vincent DuPont were called in and for a while they were on every trip. Angel Harper was there with her then-husband, and I was also doing the services. And we had to learn how to do the NOW Productions (audio\/video) part of it too.<\/p>\n It was at a very professional level. It was intense, with very full days, day in and day out. But the energy was there. Maybe I was exhausted and I didn\u2019t know it, but I look back and I consider that we did the work and we did it with excellence. We didn\u2019t falter because we were too exhausted and we were making mistakes. We just stepped up so Spirit could do\u00a0what it does. When I look back, we didn\u2019t skip a beat. I think that was part of what prepared me for what I\u2019m doing now.<\/p>\n It\u2019s interesting to think back to Roger Hinkins and his personality and expression, and then think of what he\u00a0stepped into\u2026and then I think of how I stepped into what I\u2019ve stepped into. I stand up there and I do look at it as speaking for God. That\u2019s the best way for me to look at it when I do this work. I just see my time with J-R as having prepared me for the next logical progression. When I was\u00a0the president of MSIA I was doing everything I could to pick it up so he was free to do what was primary for him. From day one J-R needed\u00a0to be out of the body. Anyone who worked with him would tell you lots of stories of how often J-R was \u201cdown\u201d which was code that meant that the body\u2019s down.<\/p>\n We all have the opportunity to be out of the body with our eyes open, even if you\u2019re driving a car. I wouldn\u2019t recommend that for safety reasons. But I\u2019m sure Jsu and Nat, who also drove J-R, could tell you how it\u2019s not an easy job to be driving the car while Then once the Traveler mantle came along in 1988, I didn\u2019t grill J-R about it, because of the way I was with J-R. \u00a0I didn\u2019t say, \u201cCan I see the manual for being the Traveler now?\u201d There was no such thing.<\/p>\n And I didn\u2019t ask for an explanation. I was built to not do that. It\u2019s not like I didn\u2019t ask questions at all, but as much as possible I tried to determine the answers from my own experience, and then be open.<\/p>\n So once I had the mantle at some point he was more or less making me do the seminars. In Berlin for the first time I was called upon to address the group. J-R was wrestling with me to sit me down in a chair, in front of everybody. And my attitude was, \u201cJ-R, I don\u2019t want to do this.\u201d But it was like, no, it\u2019s time for you to do this. You\u2019re the Traveler, you have the keys. You can\u2019t just keep refusing. You have to step into this.<\/p>\n That\u2019s how I went into it. I don\u2019t really consider it to be a seminar because I was in so much resistance\u00a0that I wasn\u2019t in a state of mind to be open. But the energy came in so people got the experience. I think people realized that even though John doesn\u2019t seem to have a clue about what he\u2019s saying, the Traveler consciousness is walloping us in an energy field that people recognize. Over the years I\u2019ve really thought, \u201cWow, the difference between J-R\u2019s attunement and my attunement is so huge, I don\u2019t even know how to measure that.\u201d But just the same I\u2019ve witnessed over and over that the Traveler consciousness is the Traveler consciousness. It doesn\u2019t come in diminished.<\/p>\n But it\u2019s also in everybody, so it\u2019s not like it\u2019s dependent on a body; but, mechanistically or practically, it uses one. It uses a body that is anchored, so it can anchor itself to a body. What is that? Is it channeling? Why would God make a rock so heavy he can\u2019t lift it? God\u2019s not that stupid. In that realm there are no rocks, there are no limitations, there\u2019s not even gravity. So it\u2019s all weightless. If you try to do it here in the world, it\u2019s in another framework. How we perceive and express it here is different. J-R made it so clear that you have to be here in this world, you can\u2019t not be here. You can\u2019t just check out of this world, you have to deal with it. We all resist and say we don\u2019t agree with how my physical body functions because I have these other awarenesses of a body so clear and free of the physical. So what? We all have that. Deal with this, do the best you can, but also you have an opportunity to do attunement to what\u2019s higher.<\/p>\n Click Here To Read Part 2 Of The Interview<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n
\nto adjust to his way of being and what it called for. It called for a lot of sensitivity, quiet, respect and surrender. And it also called for some kind of understanding because J-R was a rascal, a kind of troublemaker, a kidder, with a great sense of humor\u2014as anyone who was around him knew. He liked to pull practical jokes and all kinds of antics that made him unpredictable. Surprises were part of the deal.<\/p>\n
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\nI was raised, particularly by my mother, which was to be polite, to be honorable, to be respectful, a \u201cgood guest.\u201d<\/p>\n
\nAt that point I realized that I had endured. One of my final \u201ctests\u201d if you will, was when J-R was having a very difficult time in 1987, physically and health-wise. His blood pressure was up, he gained weight, and it was very difficult because it was the era of the Los Angeles Times articles came out about John-Roger and MSIA. It was challenging not just for John-Roger but for anyone working on staff that year. Things were changing and shifting, and not in ways that I personally liked or agreed with or understood. It was a year when everyone was being tested or measured to see how they would respond. J-R told the three of us that were still there in 1987 that he was getting so sick that he couldn\u2019t stay in the house because the negative power was there so powerfully. He said, \u201cEither you three have to go or
\nI have to go. So I\u2019ve ordered up applications for Prana residency and I\u2019d like you to fill them out.\u201d For me, that was like, \u201cYou want me to go to Siberia?\u201d God bless Prana, and I have stayed there one or two nights, but once I was with J-R I didn\u2019t want to be anywhere else. Things changed after I became the Traveler and got married, but in that period of time I just wanted to be with J-R wherever he was.<\/p>\n
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\nJ-R is \u201cout\u201d and you in some way experience yourself \u201cout\u201d with him. I don\u2019t know how far out I would go\u2014and we\u2019re not talking about miles, we\u2019re talking about realms. Clearly I experienced myself out of the body and many people would recognize that feeling and call it \u201csleepy.\u201d But in MSIA we\u2019re talking about an attunement that shifts into soul awareness and soul body travel, and that to me is exponentially different from psychic body travel. I was learning how to step into that.<\/p>\n
\nIt needs that body to get into the level. I\u2019ve had that experience all along. If I just have the willingness to step up to the plate, to get in a chair\u2026I just tell people this ministry is one of showing up. And then over the years many times I\u2019ve looked at as, \u201cWhat am I going to talk about? I have this assignment,\u201d and then I realize, \u201cJust get up there and say whatever comes present.\u201d And that\u2019s what you see. I get up there and the attunement comes in.<\/p>\n
\nNo. J-R made it clear that we\u2019re not doing that, we\u2019re not going out of the body so some other consciousness can come into
\nthe body. So what are we doing? Attunement. That attunement can be something like\u2026 \u201cat this moment I\u2019m in the mind of Einstein.\u201d How did I do that? God knows how to do it all. What\u2019s the big deal? It can keep shifting itself. It\u2019s a consciousness that is all, knows all. Capacity is a misnomer. I doesn\u2019t have capacity, or you could say
\nit has endless capacity. So there\u2019s nothing it can\u2019t do.<\/p>\n
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