<\/p>\n
Paul Kaye has worked on MSIA staff since 1976 and has been President of MSIA since 1989. He has co-authored several books with John-Roger, including What\u2019s it Like Being You, The Rest of Your Life, Living the Spiritual Principles of Health and Well-Being and Momentum: Letting Love Lead. Over the years Paul traveled extensively with John-Roger doing MSIA services and facilitating retreats and workshops. He currently facilitates the IHOP class and sound meditations.<\/p>\n
NDH:<\/strong> So what\u2019s it like working with J-R?<\/em><\/p>\n Paul Kaye<\/strong>: Well, it\u2019s following a call. It\u2019s something that the heart desires, and there\u2019s this tremendous pull. So it\u2019s not something one can feel in terms of what it\u2019s \u201clike.\u201d It\u2019s a sense; a fulfillment of a dream; a privilege\u2014a privilege to work with someone who\u2019s probably one of the greatest spiritual masters ever, in my opinion. I say that not only from experience, having gone around the block several times looking for a spiritual master, but also from everything that I\u2019ve read and considered and thought about and seen.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: How do you know that mastership? What are the indicators?<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: In my case, I would say the indicators were a sense of humor, and a tremendous ability to be loving, a kind of radiant joy, a feeling that you want to be with them and that you\u2019re uplifted in their company. However, you could say that for a number of people\u2014but one thing you can\u2019t say about a lot of people is that they really know you. And J-R had this ability to really demonstrate clearly that he knew you, not only through his presence and the way he looked at you, but also the information he would give you.<\/p>\n I had a couple of light studies [personal counselings\u2013ed.] with him and the insights that he would give you were amazing. Many people have had an experience of this, where he would say three or four words to them, perhaps at a book signing or something like that, and it would change their world. He would explain your life path and what you were here to work with, and you\u2019d remember it thirty years later and think, \u201cOh my goodness, he knew that back then?\u201d You\u2019d still be working with what he said, even in the simplest of areas.<\/p>\n So I think there\u2019s a common experience for a lot of us who came into MSIA in the \u201970s\u2014and even though I was involved in England, it very much mirrored the group that was here in the U.S. There was so much talk of gurus and people like that, that most of us said, \u201cWell, look, if you are what you say you are, prove it to us.\u201d I think we all had our own version of that. And in each particular case, J-R did prove it to us. He proved that he was who he said he was, and I think we have a very solid MSIA because of that. People have stuck around because what he set in motion resonates and vibrates to this day and is very alive.<\/p>\n Not that a lot of people haven\u2019t left as well\u2014I mean it\u2019s not just one way\u2014but for the most part we have this stability because he revealed who he was and he was what he said he was. So there was no other place to go. That\u2019s kind of reflected in Jesus and his disciples, where one of them said, \u201cWhere else are we going to go Lord?\u201d When I read that, I went, \u201cYeah, where else are we going to go? There\u2019s nowhere else to go. I\u2019ve looked around.\u201d John Morton and I share an idea that we both came to independently, which is that if there\u2019s anything better we would jump on it. It\u2019s not like we\u2019re married to this unconditionally; it\u2019s just that we\u2019re here, selfishly, because it\u2019s the best thing around.<\/p>\n I did find some other really good things. The poetry of Rumi, or Kabir, and some of the works of spiritual masters. I sometimes quote them, but it doesn\u2019t compare to what J-R has been able to offer on a personal level, because he was able to demonstrate it\u2014when I was working for him, when times were hard, or when I was having difficulty, or when I was making mistakes. He was always there. So when he says, \u201cWhen you\u2019re at your worst, I\u2019m at my best,\u201d that\u2019s absolutely true, because when you\u2019re at your best you don\u2019t need anyone. I would say that that was exactly my experience. You didn\u2019t want to have to get to your worst to see J-R at his best, but if you found yourself at your worst, you definitely would see him being at his best. And I experienced that on a few occasions.<\/p>\n To me, life is about feeling. I love Maya Angelou\u2019s quote that people will forget what you said and they\u2019ll forget what you did but they will always remember how you made them feel. That to me applies to J-R. He\u2019s said some fantastic things, he\u2019s done some fantastic things, but the way he made you feel is unforgettable. And that\u2019s what one\u2019s left with at the end of the day. Perhaps a few times he looks at you and you know that he\u2019s looking at you beyond the physical form. He\u2019s looking at who you are and you feel that awaken. And then it\u2019s almost like it takes you years to realize, \u201cWell, wait a minute, I can get to what he was looking at because clearly he was looking at something way more than just a body.\u201d<\/p>\n You remember the feeling in the eyes. The love in the eyes lingers. I\u2019ve had these moments in life where the image lingers for some reason, and the quality of his voice comes alive. This evening, we have a sound meditation and I\u2019ve selected three meditations, which I play constantly, based on the quality of J-R\u2019s voice. The content is important but it\u2019s the quality, particularly \u201cPractice the Divine Presence (1979)\u201d where he\u2019s talking extemporaneously in New York City on the radio and his voice has this almost bell-like quality. That\u2019s really how you know he knows you. It\u2019s a feeling; it\u2019s hard to articulate because it\u2019s like Spirit. If you put words on it, you kind of miss it, but it\u2019s this feeling that you\u2019re able to have in his presence.<\/p>\n It\u2019s alive now as I\u2019m talking. It\u2019s not like it went away, and I think that\u2019s the difference as well. It\u2019s a vibrating feeling that continues. If I remember how he looked at me, it\u2019s like that\u2019s present now, whereas some other past event would be just in the area of memory. But with J-R, it\u2019s an experience.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: What kinds of things did you learn from J-R?<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: I don\u2019t think I would have understood unconditional loving if I hadn\u2019t seen it in action. At the end of the day, that\u2019s really what it was about. I think a lot of people saw J-R as a father figure, or an uncle figure or a parental figure. And some people were abused as children and were looking for the love they felt they missed. But I was very loved as a child. It\u2019s not like I was deprived of love; on the contrary, my parents were very attentive.<\/p>\n When I saw J-R in action, I could understand why he represents something much more for some, but for me he was really kind of a wise friend\u2014or certainly a more experienced, attuned friend. It wasn\u2019t like I was looking for love. I was looking for a spiritual teacher. To me his unconditional loving means that when I\u2019m at my worst, so to speak, he\u2019s at his best.<\/p>\n There were two memorable instances of this. At one point I was making a lot of mistakes and had a love affair that was coming to a close, and everything was kind of imploding. It was really terrible. I almost reached rock bottom and I was going to hand in my resignation and say I\u2019m out of here, but then I thought, \u201cWell, look, he\u2019s been so nice to me; that\u2019s really rude.\u201d So I wrote to him and said, \u201cIf it\u2019s clear, I\u2019m ready to leave,\u201d so at least I was giving him an option. I was in his office and although I was just really at the bottom, he had a twinkle in his eye and he was very a matter of fact about things. \u201cI read your letter,\u201d he said. \u201cI tore it up.\u201d He said, \u201cLook, we have an agreement to work together and I\u2019m not dropping my end of the agreement.\u201d<\/p>\n I thought that was the most brilliant thing I\u2019d ever heard. I don\u2019t even feel like I\u2019m being hyperbolic, because it just showed who J-R was, which was a life lesson. He was just like, \u201cLook, you\u2019re free to do what you\u2019re doing; I\u2019m not agreeing with it; I\u2019ve torn up your letter so you can decide, but I\u2019m keeping my agreement.\u201d He kind of put me on the spot in a way, but he was also showing his commitment to me, and there wasn\u2019t anything threatening about it. If you look at it, he could have said easily, \u201cWell, if you\u2019re dropping your end, I\u2019m going to drop my end.\u201d There were just lots of ways to go. Or he could have said, \u201cScrew you. I thought you were here forever.\u201d He could have gone about it in so many ways, and he didn\u2019t. So, I was back on, although it took me several months or longer to regain my confidence and get back up to speed. But that was a complete turning point. I was 36 years old at the time, and from there things just got better and better.<\/p>\n The other instance that was a turning point as well was a phone call I had done where I made an error. J-R called me and asked what was going on, and I was a bit flippant about it\u2014and I can be flippant. J-R gave us a lot of leeway with mistakes. He\u2019d given seminars on mistakes, but as always with J-R there was always a lesson in everything, no matter what you thought. There was always a twist in things because he knew you. He said, \u201cYour soul would not allow me to make a mistake with you.\u201d He repeated that my Soul would not allow it, so why was I making a mistake with him?<\/p>\n What can you say to that? That gave me another life-changing moment, but again it was like, \u201cWhoa, wait a minute, I thought I came here to serve J-R, but J-R is actually serving me. J-R\u2019s a servant.\u201d As I rise in consciousness, I\u2019ve found that the higher I get the more the servant I become; it\u2019s not like the higher I get the more crowns and status I get. In a way, you get more into that serving world and indeed serving is the only thing you can do, every day. And if I\u2019m serving him and he\u2019s serving me, then it becomes a kind of mutual service. How can I do more after that? It\u2019s always been that way. I\u2019ve been given a lot. I\u2019ve had a very privileged and blessed life. But that\u2019s the feeling I have. It\u2019s like, what can I do to give back because I\u2019ve been given so much? What\u2019s the point of having a higher consciousness if you can\u2019t serve?<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: What are some things you learned from J-R about being the president of MSIA? Did you get any guidance about doing your job?<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: I don\u2019t know if there was any specific guidance; it\u2019s just more kind of a happy coincidence, if one could call it that. When I left home to come to Prana, it wasn\u2019t a big change for me. I lived at home until I was 26 years old. I was an original millennial. So it was just a move from one loving environment to another, really. J-R\u2019s values matched my own, so it was easy for me to adopt his world view, for want of a better word. It was not really an adjustment that I had to make. The way he went about things was very much like my boss at my job before I came here: \u201cHow can we do this?\u201d rather than, \u201ctell me how we can do it,\u201d or \u201ctell me how we can\u2019t do it.\u201d<\/p>\n He was always into possibilities, rather than into lacking possibilities or cutting off possibilities. Let\u2019s see\u2026I came on staff in 1976 and became president in 1989, so I guess it was only 13 years, but it was long enough to be involved in the finances and operations of MSIA and to observe how J-R did things. That was an easy transition. I\u2019ve never really identified with being president. It\u2019s not part of my self-identity. I\u2019d much rather see myself as a loving human being who is the president, so if you took away the president, it wouldn\u2019t matter to me. I would still be a loving human being.<\/p>\n There\u2019s nothing romantic about me being president. I joke around and people say, \u201cOh, you\u2019re the president,\u201d \u201cYes, I\u2019m the president, call me President, call me Mister,\u201d just joking around with all the things that people put on it. And I realize that people do put big stock in it, and many people have problems with authority figures. I don\u2019t really see myself as an authority. I see it as a role, much like an acting role, where the actor can take off the clothes anytime they want. I\u2019m not identified with it. It\u2019s a job that I look at as a service, one that J-R appointed me to and I said, \u201cOkay.\u201d It wasn\u2019t like I was being groomed to be king. When I came on staff, it was to serve. I didn\u2019t really have anything on it. It even surprised me that I was doing aura balances and things like that. It wasn\u2019t like, \u201ctell me how I can do this or that,\u201d it was, \u201ctell me how I can be of service.\u201d<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: How did you start doing the IHOP classes? What was the motivation?<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: Well the motivation for the IHOP is simply that the MSS and the DSS classes had completed a cycle, and I didn\u2019t want people to just drift off and not be participating. I felt that there was space for another course that would keep them involved and yet be lighter. I saw it as just an adjunct course. I\u2019ve always been very clear that I feel that the MSS and the DSS are the jewels in the PTS crown and that they are essential courses. I would never think of IHOP as being anywhere near replacing them. So it was an opportunity for people to participate without homework, without a Friday night class. One of the difficulties in any city is a Friday night class because you have to leave early in the afternoon to get across town, whether it\u2019s New York City or any city in the world.<\/p>\n But eliminating Fridays was problematic because it always felt like Friday night sets the tone, so that when people come in on Saturday morning, they\u2019re more ready to go. But we had the idea of having no homework, and also the idea of there\u2019s nothing really to get. You\u2019re just here to be in a retreat environment and to be in the energy. That was the motivation. And I felt that it would also help PTS with their income stream as well. Since then we\u2019ve had MSS and DSS online so there aren\u2019t really the same considerations, but IHOP still does offer an alternative for people. Because of its nature, it gave us an opportunity to explore areas in more depth that hadn\u2019t been covered before.<\/p>\n At first it was the principles of health and wellbeing, and then it was the nine or ten tenets of MSIA. I use the word \u201ctenets\u201d because J-R uses that\u2014loving, caring, sharing, prosperity, abundance, riches, health, wealth, happiness, and touching to others. It\u2019s a nine-month course. And then we realized touching was really important; J-R really emphasizes it. I mean, at one point we were quoting him saying, \u201cWithout touching, all the rest are irrelevant or of no use.\u201d That\u2019s a really strong statement. So we added a tenth month, and we gave it free of charge, kind of as a way of touching. And people were good sports as well\u2014we had a couple of power outages\u2014but we had 200 people in the classes and it got popular and had a nice energy to it.<\/p>\n Then after we did the tenets we explored the disciples, and we were able to do a 12-month course for the first time. Then we were exploring the body, and then we did the journey to the sound current of God, which was another 12-month course. Normally, these classes would be nine months, but we wanted to continue to tap into the subject area. So as much as I\u2019ve been involved in this field, in the creation of PTS courses, and being in this energy that we\u2019re living and working in at Prana every day, I still find myself needing the reminders. And when we did IHOP-4, the journey to the sound current of God, it was a revelation to me because I hadn\u2019t really given it that much attention in the 45 years or whatever that I\u2019ve been in MSIA. I hadn\u2019t fully acknowledged that MSIA really is a sound current teaching.<\/p>\n I mean, I knew it intellectually, but not in the fiber of my being. So I found IHOP-4 to be transformational because it was something new for me. Now I\u2019m almost evangelical about it and when people say, \u201cWhat is MSIA?\u201d I say, \u201cWell, it\u2019s about and the sound current of God.\u201d The business of MSIA is of course Soul Transcendence \u2014but the practice is the sound current, the spiritual exercises. In the past, spiritual exercises didn\u2019t convey for me the feeling of the Sound of God, as they do now. In the beginning was the Word. I felt almost like I\u2019d discovered something completely new, even though it was obviously there from the very beginning.<\/p>\n In the IHOP promo, I was wondering what to say about the sound current. At some point it kind of popped out of me when I was writing it that we were going to explore sound in all of its dimensions. And since then sound has become one of the main focuses of my life.Twice a day I do a 20 minute sound current meditation for visitors to Prana. I start them off with the breath and then we go to the sound, the HU, and then we go to love (the devotional energy) and then we go to the Mystical Traveler to guide us on our inner journey. And then I play some instrumentation for people to follow the harmonics inside until the outer sound disappears and then they\u2019re connected to the inner sound, and they\u2019re riding that sound current back into the heart of God. I say this to new visitors, but in a way it\u2019s so gradual that by the time they\u2019re there it\u2019s pretty profound for the majority of people. Not that everybody\u2019s going to like it, and as they start chanting HU some people are going to find that a bit unusual or weird, but for the most part people really enjoy it. We do that and then we do the sound meditations on Tuesday evenings.<\/p>\n What I love about sound is that to me the sound and the Spirit are very alike. The sound meets you where it finds you, so it\u2019s just like the Spirit. When I send the Light to you for the highest good, the Light is going to go to where it meets you, and that\u2019s where you need the Light for this moment in your life. It could be an emotional thing, it could be something coming down the road. We just don\u2019t know, but the Light is going to decide that. It\u2019s the same with the sound. When I hit a gong or a bowl, asking for the John-Roger energy field\u2014which is essential to me, asking for the highest good and for the Mystical Traveler\u2014 that sound is going to go out and, given the person\u2019s openness or what\u2019s going on, it\u2019s going to find them where they need it most. It could be something out of balance in their physical body, it could be a disease, or maybe an organ is out of balance.<\/p>\n The body hears more than the ears, so when you vibrate, the body is picking up all of those vibrations. When it\u2019s a vibration that the body needs, the body is going to take that in like nutrition. The sound can also reach us emotionally, or it can vibrate an upset away, if you\u2019re open to letting it go. If you want to hang on to something then the sound is going to let you hang on to it and then go somewhere else, almost like a river confronting an obstacle. It\u2019s going to pass through to another state.<\/p>\n And then mentally we can certainly demonstrate the effect of sound through encephalographs. In IHOP, the sound therapist Alexander Tannous showed us how what he calls the discursive mind (or the monkey mind, or the chattering mind) immediately calms down. When I\u2019m playing instruments for everybody\u2014and this is without me patterning them, without me even saying anything\u2014everybody says, \u201cMy mind is quiet.\u201d They\u2019re kind of amazed. So that was the IHOP-4. When we got to IHOP-5 we were exploring the fascia system of the body. It was just an adjunct class really, and it could still go on as we get more ideas about the body, but not everybody is interested. Then IHOP-6 became about living love and laughing into oneness, and finding out that the two are very much involved in each other. It\u2019s an opportunity to explore living love, and what J-R said about it. The opportunity to explore laughter has been tremendous and once again we got a couple of hundred people signing up, so it\u2019s got a momentum to it.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: What\u2019s ahead for IHOP?<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: I have no attachment to IHOP as such, but as long as people are interested, I\u2019m happy to explore these subjects. I have the privilege of exploring subjects that interest me, and that apparently are interesting to a group of people. So, I don\u2019t know what\u2019s next. I don\u2019t know if there\u2019s an IHOP-7, but each IHOP is cumulative. In other words, in IHOP-6 we\u2019re exploring sound and the Christ and the health, so the learnings from previous years accumulate.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: How did you go from the sound current to the laughter? What was the bridge there?<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: J-R has said that laughter is a sign of the presence of the Spirit. I felt that we weren\u2019t laughing enough. I like the multi-dimensional nature of things, so if something hits just one level, to me it\u2019s not worth exploring. Laughter hits the Spirit, and that is why it\u2019s essential, but it also hits the physical level and then everything in between. And living love would be the same. It\u2019s also interesting to me because I haven\u2019t explored it before, and I think it\u2019s important as a facilitator that the subject be of extreme interest to me\u2014not just like passing interest, but that this really matters to me because I\u2019m facilitating it. Dr. Mark Holmes, an Oriental Medical Doctor and long-time minister and initiate is co-facilitating IHOP with me. Sometimes we have guest facilitators, but since we are directing the primary thrust of the material, and it needs to come across that this matters to us, and why it matters, and why we think it\u2019s important for other people too.<\/p>\n When the election results came along I was just shocked to see how partisan everybody was, how upset everybody was and how serious everybody was. And then I thought that we went from needing to laugh more to it\u2019s essential to laugh more, because it\u2019s like people are forgetting the joy that they are as spiritual beings and putting that below these worldly affairs, which we\u2019ve been taught to look at neutrally and send the light to. My attitude is that if you have a concern, go and do something about it and move on it physically, or let it go. Just to be concerned and be negative about the concern is a karma-producing situation.<\/p>\n I think it\u2019s much better to find the humor. So, we did the first class and it was really well-received. I think we need to approach it philosophically because there are things that we don\u2019t perceive as funny. To me it\u2019s not funny that elephants are becoming extinct, or giraffes. I love those animals. Having ben on safari, having had a connection with them not just in the zoo but actually in the wild, particularly the elephants, where I had the opportunity in the Maasai Mara to be driven by one of the guides in to the middle of an elephant herd that was walking across the plains\u2026to me it was one of the most extraordinary experiences in my life. I have this affinity with these beings, so stuff like that is not funny to me, and there\u2019s no way I could be laughing.<\/p>\n Nevertheless, crying isn\u2019t going to help them either, so we\u2019ve got this philosophical dilemma of what are we going to do? It\u2019s worthy of exploration, since we\u2019ve been confronting it every day, given climate change and all the changes in the world. We explore it philosophically, and we also explore the idea for laughing for no reason at all. In IHOP-6, we\u2019re going to be exploring how everyday events can be perceived as funny.<\/p>\n For example we resurrect the Seinfeld skit where he describes being at a breakfast buffet at a hotel. It had me laughing out loud. He was describing what people do at buffets\u2014the absurdity of the combinations on our plates and the confusion of walking around in circles. And then when you finally get your plate completely full, you see that someone else has something you didn\u2019t know about and you\u2019ve got to have that one thing. You get so excited and impatient.\u201cWHERE DID YOU GET THAT?\u201d As if you needed the food. You\u2019ve already got enough different food combinations to give you indigestion. What is it that makes that funny? It\u2019s something that\u2019s difficult to teach but at least people know that you can take an ordinary event and make it funny.<\/p>\n As J-R often says, if it will be funny later on, it\u2019s funny now. Later on you\u2019re looking back and talking about it and putting twists on it and laughing about it. There\u2019s a perceptual twist involved so you can learn to make it funny almost immediately, in the moment. In the excerpts that I have from J-R about laughter, I see him doing that virtually all the time. He\u2019s sitting back there, laughing at what\u2019s going on, and that\u2019s the great twinkle in the eye that I talked to you about. It\u2019s as if when he\u2019s looking at you, he\u2019s seeing something else as well, and he\u2019s mesmerized by the fact that we\u2019re so caught up in all of this, and yet he\u2019s in it with us. That was the funny thing with J-R. He would just get in there with us but he\u2019d be laughing and we\u2019 be crying.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: And I\u2019ve heard you\u2019ll be doing some improv in IHOP-6.<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: The improv is less about laughter. It actually turned out to be about honoring another person, being with them and connecting with them and listening to them, and making what they\u2019re saying important, even when it\u2019s not, because it\u2019s a way of connecting to the divine in them. It became a whole different practice. I found these improv teachers, and it started out as \u201cwe\u2019re going to laugh\u201d but it just took another turn, and the whole purpose changed to something that had more to do with connection and listening. And the laugher may well be a by-product, but we\u2019re still working on it and we\u2019ll see what it evolves. It\u2019s a big unknown right now.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: What was interesting to me taking the experimental improv class as IHOP-6 was being designed, was that being funny or being spontaneous was directly related to the ability to empathize with the other person, and listen, and go with whatever the other person was doing. It wasn\u2019t like we were projecting energy out. It was like we were receiving and participating, instead of trying to come up with ideas. We were participating in a flow.<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: It\u2019s fascinating, isn\u2019t it? It\u2019s exactly what J-R is saying\u2014the value of listening. To me it sounds like this is the spiritual nature of things. You\u2019re really taking in the other person and being with who they are, rather than projecting your own agenda on them. That\u2019s a big skill. You don\u2019t see too many people do it. When you\u2019re in the presence of someone who is doing that, you feel good. One of the more valuable things I\u2019ve seen when I\u2019ve gotten in to that space\u2014and I\u2019m not always in that space\u2014is that people feel heard. When they feel heard, it\u2019s healing for them.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: It seems to me that what you\u2019re doing with IHOP, and also the sound meditation classes, is that instead of just going straight into meditative practices, you\u2019re doing things in the physical world that vibrate in harmony with how the Spirit manifests on the different levels. So whether it\u2019s through the gongs, or improv, or health, people have an introduction through the physical, emotional and mental levels, and then they go into the higher vibrations. It\u2019s very much like the way sound works, where you put out a fundamental tone and then other tones, or higher octaves, start vibrating in harmony. It\u2019s almost like what you\u2019re doing is in the classes is harmonic, even if the class isn\u2019t actually about sound.<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: That\u2019s beautiful. I hadn\u2019t thought about it in those terms. In a sense, where it has been conscious on my part is the point of view that it\u2019s it\u2019s all about the John-Roger energy field. So in every class that I do I ask for the presence and the energy of John-Roger to infuse everything we\u2019re doing, for the highest good. We\u2019re calling ourselves forward into that vibrational field. And we also create a context, and then without telling people to do SE\u2019s, or without telling them to live a healthier lifestyle, people start to vibrate naturally towards a healthier approach or doing their SE\u2019s or whatever the practice is, without anything other than starting to vibrate towards that. Changes take place, and I think that\u2019s the nicest thing about it.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: They\u2019re great introductions for people because they present the teachings in a way that they can absorb or feel or vibrate with, on a lower level, if they can\u2019t consciously be aware of the higher level. You bring it to them through the different levels, and you say, \u201cSee, this is how spirit vibrates physically, this is how spirit vibrates emotionally, mentally and unconsciously.\u201d It\u2019s like a path.<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: That\u2019s why I look from a multidimensional viewpoint. So laughter is not just laughing like, \u201cHey, someone is amusing us.\u201d It\u2019s like, can the laughter be emotional, mental, unconscious, and through all the levels? Eventually, it\u2019s the sign of the spirit, which becomes almost like the pure joy. First we may have to fake the laughter and make ourselves laugh, but eventually it primes the pump for a bigger joy to come forward. And that\u2019s my point with people who are upset, particularly with worldly stuff. We\u2019ve all got our buttons. (I think that now they\u2019re called triggers.) My point of view is, \u201cWait a minute. I understand, but that\u2019s not who you are.\u201d Who we are is joyful. So while we may not be able to access that all the time, it\u2019s important that we know that the laughter is there. It\u2019s one thing to be deprived of water. That\u2019s a real panic. It\u2019s another thing to say, \u201cOkay, well, I\u2019m not going to take the water right now, but I know it\u2019s there if I need it.\u201d There are more people getting ultra-serious and my attitude is, \u201cHave you forgotten that there is a joyful basis to who you are?\u201d<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: Is there anything you can describe about the process of learning about sound that\u2019s been interesting to you?<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: What\u2019s so fascinating is that I didn\u2019t expect to be here. This is now the beginning of 2017, and in the beginning of 2016 sound wasn\u2019t even really on my mind. I was just looking at how was I going to do 12 months of the sound current of God. So I started desperately seeking people who could talk about sound. Then as I heard about it, it started to kind of interest me in ways that totally surprised me, and now I\u2019m completely in love with it. We were recording a gong for the new spiritual exercises app that we\u2019re developing, and it was so interesting to me\u2014the resonance, the way the sound comes off of it, and the vibration.<\/p>\n One of the things I\u2019m learning in the sound events that I do\u2014I call them sound immersions\u2014is to honor the silence more. I\u2019m starting out with the sound, but there\u2019s no sound without silence. So tonight I\u2019m going to say, \u201cThere are going to be moments of silence, but it\u2019s not the end.\u201d<\/p>\n So I need to set it up so people can just be in the silence and then let the sound fade a little bit more. I used to start the events by saying, \u201cLook, I\u2019m not a musician and this is not a performance. It\u2019s about sound. People would get upset with me afterwards saying, \u201cYou are a musician,\u201d \u201cNo, I\u2019m not a musician.\u201d So now I don\u2019t say anything. It\u2019s funny that people could see me that way.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: Are you primarily visual? I was interested in the way you described discovering sound as though it was something new for you, and you hadn\u2019t thought of it so much until you studied it in connection with IHOP.<\/em><\/p>\n Paul: I\u2019m definitely primarily visual. I\u2019m visual\/kinesthetic. My auditory sense is very much my lowest. That\u2019s what surprised me about doing the work with sound. When I took to it, I really took to it. It was so interesting. I did a sound event and someone came up to me and said, \u201cIt must have taken you years to learn this.\u201d It had only been like two or three months. I was a bit embarrassed actually. People were getting results from it, but that had nothing to do with me. I was just going along. So that kind of interested me.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: I\u2019ve heard J-R say you are not here to do what you know; you\u2019re here to learn what you don\u2019t know. It\u2019s interesting to me that I\u2019m doing all these visual arts, photography and design, and I\u2019m primarily auditory. When I was 20 or 25, if you\u2019d told me I\u2019d be doing music or sound engineering, I would have said, \u201cYeah, that\u2019s reasonable.\u201d If you\u2019d told me I\u2019d be doing photography or visual arts I would have been really surprised. To me it\u2019s part of what J-R does. He really stretches you out in this lifetime, and anything that\u2019s incomplete gets completed.<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: To me, the metaphor for everything now is sound. The vibration J-R set in motion that is still going on. I play the Heartfelt meditation at every IHOP and at sound events. People get up afterwards and go, \u201cWow, that was amazing.\u201d It just really is. I think it\u2019s because it\u2019s so alive. It\u2019s more than just a meditation. The work with vibration has also affected my speaking, and singing, voice. I have received positive feedback about my voice that I haven\u2019t gotten before. So something\u2019s changed, and I don\u2019t know what it is, and I can\u2019t say that I woke up with an epiphany or anything like that. It just seems gradual – just like everything else at IHOP.<\/p>\n NDH<\/strong>: Any plans for the future of sound events, or incorporating sound into IHOP?<\/em><\/p>\n Paul<\/strong>: Just continuing with the events as long as people enjoy them. I am interested in the idea of sound baths, which are becoming increasingly popular. Let\u2019s just take a piano piece like the Moonlight Sonata by Beethoven. It\u2019s a simple enough piece. Whoever plays it, it is going to be beautiful, but everybody is going to bring a different feeling to it. It\u2019s the same with the sound. If I do a sound bath (I call it sound immersion) it\u2019s going to be completely different from the way someone else does it. Your vibration is going to hit certain people and my vibration will hit certain people. I feel in many ways that it\u2019s my life\u2019s work, funnily enough\u2014sound. I can\u2019t even give you a reason for that, but I think that for the rest of my life I\u2019ll be exploring that.<\/p>\n It\u2019s got enough depth in it, because it\u2019s the sound doing the work. You can\u2019t be ego-attached to it, like \u201cLook what I did for you.\u201d It\u2019s just like, \u201cYou didn\u2019t do anything.\u201d It removes the ego, and if there\u2019s an ego element, it\u2019s purely in the pleasure of sharing it. When I play a gong, then the sound gets to work, and it\u2019s the same thing with the Light. The Light gets to work.<\/p>\n When I talk about anything these days it seems to be in terms of the John-Roger energy field. I look at that energy field as an aquarium or a pool, and it\u2019s the only pool or aquarium I want to swim in. It\u2019s not like I want to go outside the aquarium. So I\u2019m being very sensitive to the energy underneath what I\u2019m doing, and I\u2019m always asking myself, \u201cIs this being spirit-directed? Is this John-Roger\u2019s work\u2014or compatible, or in alignment with, or in that field?\u201d If it\u2019s outside of the field, I really don\u2019t want to be involved.<\/p>\n To me John-Roger is alive and well and expanded as an energy field, in all of us. I think a lot of people feel that way. It\u2019s not unique to me. But it\u2019s not for the world, and it\u2019s not for everybody. I\u2019d love it to be for everybody, but it seems that it just doesn\u2019t work that way. And now it may be that J-R\u2019s not actually in the room, but J-R is the room. In that sense, I feel that this work is just amazing.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" 100% Living and Working with John-Roger An Interview with Paul Kaye by David Sand Paul Kaye has worked on MSIA staff since 1976 and has been President of MSIA since 1989. He has co-authored several books with John-Roger, including What\u2019s it Like Being You, The Rest of Your Life, Living the Spiritual Principles of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":35,"featured_media":88077,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[257],"tags":[995,3466,174,463,165],"class_list":["post-88057","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-ndh-archives","tag-ihop","tag-interviews","tag-meditation","tag-sound-current","tag-spirituality"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/88057","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/35"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=88057"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/88057\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/88077"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=88057"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=88057"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.msia.org\/newdayherald\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=88057"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
\nOf course, spiritually we know that the sound current is what we\u2019re after, so I say, \u201cThese are not spiritual sounds; obviously they\u2019re physical realm sounds, but they can lead us harmoniously as our mind is quiet and as we follow the vibration. Then we can take it inside and forget about the outer vibration, and then connect with the inner vibration, the sound current.\u201d<\/p>\n