Publisher: 1980-03-01 00:00:00
Published Date: March 1, 1980
Source: Transcript
Copyright: © 1980 MSIA
John-Roger
Transcript #1381 “On Death and Dying”
One thing that probably you might want to get out of this seminar tonight is just a lot of fun and joy. And forget the words, cause, what the heck, you do anyway. And some of you, you’re just gonna have an awful hard time laughing but I’m gonna talk about some SERIOUS things also. Real serious. Like death. uhooh (feigned scream)!
I suppose one of the greatest key notes that really denotes the people in the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness, that we sort of pronounce messiah, M-S-I-A, Messiah, is that we’re lovers of God. And regardless of the name that you call God, that’s the one that we’re talkin’ about. And if that God has been limited by your appellation or naming of it, then we’re talking about the part that you didn’t name. The part that’s larger and grander than anything else.
And some of us in the Movement, and some of us who are not what you call in the Movement organization but there’s really no such thing because it’s an interior thing, have also had the experience of God in your life. And you haven’t had it in terms of the Traveler or in terms of Jesus Christ or in terms of any other term, you just had it as an experience of loving. And maybe you had it as the name of Buddha, or the name of Sai Baba, or the name of something. And all that is just really fine with me. Maybe you had it in terms of Zen yoga, you know. Or the Zen of God.
There’s all sorts of Zen things floating around. And all that is just O.K. Some of you had it in terms of Yahweh and in terms of Jehovah. And I just want you to know that if I’ve missed any of the names that you worship, etcetera encompasses that. So, etcetera. So now everybody else is covered. Probably the one phenomena (sic) in life that all of us are gonna come to will be that place in life that we reach called, a new growth pattern.
It’s called “death” in terms of our living here. And I want to talk about that tonight. Because I want to tell you the good news and the bad news.
The good news is you’re gonna die. It’s the good news. And the bad news is you don’t know when.
One of the people from the rabbinical line, a rabbi, was talking to a group of his students. They were saying, “What about repentance?” He said, “Repent the day before you die.” And they all said, “That’s really great, that’s wonderful. What day is that gonna be?” And he said, “If you don’t know, then repent EVERY day. So, live in a constant state of repentance and upliftment so whatever day that appears to you is O.K.”
Too often we hear the terms of, “Oh, they died before their time.” No one dies before their time. They die before the time we want them to die. And so if we just get it real clear, or, “They died too young.” No. There is no such thing as too young. We’re all so old as it is, that that doesn’t make any difference.
But there are a few things that probably we should look at and these are things like that J-R would like you to do. And that doesn’t mean that you’ve got to do any one of them. And, these are also things that you oughta do and that means that you won’t do any one of them. And these are all things that all your friends will think you should do, so you’ll probably do it to please your friends. However all that comes about is just fine with me.
It goes like this. If you have not discussed with the people who are around you what it is that you want done with your body after you’ve left it, it would be nice to do that. You see, death has been called such a horrid, terrible enemy. On some people, that may very well be true. But for some of the others of us it is NOT true at all, it’s just a shift, a transformation into a greater stage of enlightenment and freedom. And to some people it’s not going to be. And, we’ll define those for you a little bit later. See, people said to talk about death and dying is morbid. It is if you put morbid in the conversation. But it’s not morbid if it is, in fact, something that is going to occur to every one of us, AND I don’t get anybody in this room is gonna be exempt.
And you may want to be exempt, and that’s O.K. I just got some more bad news for you, you’re not gonna get that want either. And if we look at death as the time of God dancing in our heart, truly knowing of God, then it is something to be looked forward to but not something to foist upon yourself. Now I’m not talking about that process called suicide, where you then take in your own hands the instrumentality of your own death. I’m not talking about that. And, even at that you can’t do it unless the Spirit O.K’s it.
So really, spiritually there is no such thing as suicide, or, the moment we think of negative thoughts about somebody and start killing them in our hearts is also called suicide. So either it’s ALL that or it’s none of that because it’s very difficult to separate what is truly the factor of Spirit in our life. Some people are able to get into it enough to find out that it’s O.K. I’ve discussed the whole process of living and dying individually with many people, and there are just some of the things on the planet that it’s really wise to know about if you’re gonna die. And, they boil down to this.
First of all if you know you’re terminally ill, terminally ill now I’m talking about from the diseased state of existence, and your dying involves, legally, the giving away of property the dispensing of your worldly goods, it is wise that you be told that you’re terminally ill so that you can then deal with the legal aspects of that for the rest of the family. That’s wise.
And comes the big what this message is, all of this information must be applied individually according to the situation and each person who’s involved in it.
There are no set rules that will come out of Spirit of which one you say, “You’re dying, you’re living, you’re dying, you’re living.” And the way that we’re going to find that out is the attuning into that person who is present. And they are going to tell us by their language mechanism, and it may not be verbally, what they want to hear about that and what they don’t want to hear about that.
To dispense with real fast; those who don’t want to hear about that they’re dying, don’t tell them. That’s respect to them. That deals with that. And some people don’t want to know it. Some people don’t want to know it in terms of all the time they’re dying they’re thinking of their vacation, what they’re gonna do on it so they die with a good place in their heart. That is a misnomer. If you die with less than God in your heart, you haven’t lived. So anybody who’s living that their dying process is involved in living a vacation, they’ve got their heads screwed on backwards right from the start, and it would be to their advantage to get it screwed around right at the end.
Now, I heard this statement, “I couldn’t tell em they’re dying, it would kill em.” Now even though that’s funny, you know in terms of that, it also is a killer. It doesn’t kill the body but it kills the living that is left in the body. And it stifles the expression of loving that is present. In that last moment, those people who are gaining freedom in the Spirit will produce for you some of the greatest attributes of living love that you’ll be able to experience. Because they’ll be closer to God in the physical manifestation if their consciousness has been trained towards that. Some of the ancient teachings say, the last thought on your mind is the place you will , go to after you leave the body.
Example. One man, as the story goes, was dying and he was a storekeeper and he had four sons. So he wanted all of his children to be present when he died, chanting the name of God. So that would be the last thing in his consciousness, so when he died he’d go to God. And he was like in and out of his lucid state and they were chanting the name of God. And he rose just to a moment before he died and he looked around and he counted all of his sons: one, two, three, four. He said, “All my sons are present. Who’s watching the store?” and died.
That can happen folks. It is the life-long training that pays off in the end. Not that moment of, I will play the trickster and win. Now how are you going to know all this? You’re not gonna know any of this until the day you do it. But there’s many people who have gone past the barrier of death.
Many times we call this soul travel, soul transcendence, and have come back and they can tell you what that is with the great conviction of their experience whether you believe it or not. And that’s the part now that we’re going to be dealing with. And it isn’t “you gotta believe,” but also it might be “if you have no reference points of your own you might want to consider these reference points because they’re not going to be given to you in the terms of negativity. They’re going to be given to you in the terms of the practicalness and when you get through listening to it you’re probably gonna say, “that’s practical and I don’t know if I can put it into effect,” and all the other considerations that you’ll have and that will always boil down to you and the relationship you have with the person you want to talk to.
First one I want to deal with is you and yourself. And it goes like this, what do you want the people to do you’re now involved with, after you die? What do you want your wife to do? What do you want your husband to do? What do you want your children to do? What is it that you have in store for them in your heart of hearts? What is that. And bring them together in a family meeting. And we could call it a prayer meeting if that fits your vernacular.
And be with each other in terms of one day, that may be tomorrow and it may be a long time from now, we will all be leaving the physical world and let’s talk about that trip. How are we gonna relate to each other? Do you want the body cremated? Do you want it buried? How many days afterwards? Do you have a funeral in mind? What is it? You see the interesting thing about talking about that takes away the depression of that, and many of the people who are being involved now in this discussion of death and dying are finding out that it doesn’t carry the threat that it had when you had no knowledge. And always no knowledge carries the threat of no knowledge. And even talking about it brings it into a sense of familiarity and a sense of comfortableness.
Now I don’t know ‘if you’re gonna be ever ENTIRELY comfortable and maybe that’s not the thing you’re looking for anyway. It seems like here on this planet, when you really real comfortable there’s always something out there waiting to disturb you or it’s right there with you waiting to disturb you, as a compulsion, as an obsession, as a bad habit, or whatever, it just seems like it’s lurking there.
So our comfortableness, at best, is a tenuous situation. I’m comfortable right now cause I’ve eaten, I’ve had sex, I’m with my spouse and it’s really fine and I’m comfortable then the phone rings.
Not even knowing even who it is, the phone ringing and that makes you uncomfortable. So that all resides out there somehow in the life path. Given that that’s out there, let’s just put that aside also. O.K. Fine. There will be uncomfortable things, and not make it more than what it is or possibly could be.
If there are legal things to be handled; I own a car, the house is in my name, paying for the kids’ education, all that stuff should be looked at and talked about in terms of planning it. In terms of planning it. And it isn’t like now I’m gonna be dead in two weeks, or I’m gonna be dead in three months.
We’re not saying put anything in action. We’re talking about what you want to have happen when all that has passed. So we’re not putting deadlines on anything because there’s such a thing as “what you ask for, you’re gonna get.”
Now, in our life path, meaning from the day we’re born to the day we’re grown in despair, there will be many times when we can leave the planet. These are exit plans.
If we have indeed completed everything at that point, we can leave. How we leave SPIRIT JUST DOESN’T CARE–car wreck, in your sleep, drown, suicide, shot, beheaded, sunstroke, heart attack, eeeeeeh. Why? It’s no respecter of the body. And the reason that we know that’s no respecter of the body because look at the bodies we got. Who was it, Rodney Dangerfield that said, “I just don’t get respect”? That’s right, he’s not going to either. He made a lot of money on that but that’s O.K.
The other thing is how do you tell somebody else who is dying. If it’s been a method of one day we’re gonna die, all of us; if I know by way of the doctor that you’re gonna die before you know, do you want me to tell you or do you want me to just shut up? It’s that type of a question to the person. So ahead of time you have the dialogue. For instance, somebody says to me, “You know, John-Roger, if we know you’re gonna die before you die would you want us to tell you, like you have a terminal disease of some kind?” And like I’ll sit there and I think, Hmm, yeah tell me. They’ll say O.K, fine.
Now maybe ten years from now they may come up and say, “John-Roger, do you still feel that if you had a terminal disease would you want us to tell you if you had it?” And I said, “Yeah,” and they say, “you got one.” “What? Not me!” (Laughter) “Uh huh, yeah you.” Well everybody’s got terminal diseases, as soon as you’re born it starts. Being human is terminal, let’s face it.
Then it’s, the idea is how long? It’s like, I’m not tellin’ ya how long you got but this is how long it’s been said you might have. Two months, three weeks, five days; who knows what that is. Because many of us know people that have been called terminally ill and they said you got two weeks to live and the person’s three years later and outlived the doctor who said they’re gonna die. But we’re saying, based upon the current information, this is what they’re saying, AND, you can live as long as you live because there is this thing called the human dynamics of that will that says I will live past this. And we can do that. And there are just too many instances that prove that so.
And there are too many people that have been brought to a terminal illness and used the terminal illness as a revelation of their life in God and reversed the illness and transformed it to a new format of life and lived for years after terminal illness without that illness present in the body, called a healing or a cure. I’m not talking about those. Those are all part of that, let’s put that aside. We’re talking about those who are going.
And you say, “But, yeah, how do I know they’re going?” After you bury them, you’ll know. “But how do I know ahead of time?” Not knowing ahead of time you lay out the conditions and the considerations not knowing this is so. But with all the information they’re telling me here’s how I would like to relate it to you. It isn’t done in the terms of coarse brutalness, nor done in terms of fear. AND, there’s a darn good chance if we haven’t talked this out ahead of time that our admonition to them of “be strong, have faith,” just won’t do it cause inside we’re saying, “I don’t know how I’d handle it. Oh it’s a terrible thing,” and they’re gonna pick that up. They’re gonna pick up your anxieties.
The nice thing about the people who have a strong, I’m gonna use the word “religious faith,” is if it’s true that it’s strong not just that they profess it but that it’s true, and the trueness means that at the moment of testing it stands up, those people have a blessing from God. That is just an automatic blessing. Do they ask of anything else? No, they’ve already got it. What is it? Just the ability to stand in there, hang in there while the person goes through the transition, that that we call death.
Well, I think you probably realize now I’m saying “death” I’m talking strictly about consciousness in the physical body, and that body manifesting it, that death. Cause my experiences have said, prior to this embodiment there was consciousness and after you leave here there will be consciousness. So, before you were born here you died from the level of consciousness you’re on to be born on this one. And when you die from here you’ll be born on the level of consciousness there. And you will die from those levels of consciousness to the new ones when there are definite separations in the field of consciousness. From the moment we’re born here ’til we die, this is just one field of consciousness.
And it looks like it’s separate, and it is not. It is one. And it’s a continuum right through. But when we leave here we go to another level of consciousness that from its moment of awakening to its moment of transition is also one level of consciousness, and it doesn’t look like it. And it is, until we phase from that to another one. The human form is so constructed that while we are here physically we have elements of other levels of consciousness inside of us that are active called the astral, causal, mental, etheric and the soul–that, that is the essence of God.
The Soul. My work deals with soul. Always has dealt with soul but because we’re all going up to that level, I have discussed and worked with the levels so you get a reference point of progression. Why? Part of the human consciousness is goal motivation, progression. That’s part of the problems we have, cause after we reach the goal we have nothing else there to look at.
And often when we’ve accomplished a goal in life we’re beset with anxieties and depressions like: I want to get married, that’s the goal, after you get married, “Huh!” No more goal. Life becomes miserable so I get divorced so then I can have another goal of marriage. Once that’s accomplished, I get divorced so I can have another one. Seems strange, but that works out there. And the same thing “I wanna be a doctor.”
So the goal is to be a doctor and all your support systems say be a doctor. And after you get to be a doctor, there’s no more need of support systems so you collapse and you start becoming a depressed doctor, so to know how to handle depression you become a psychiatrist so you give yourself another support system.
And so you go out there, after you get that. What do you do? Well, you either like give up all those things and say, “Now those are not my goals, and dealing with people’s my goals,” and you reinforce new goal, or, you walk around being a depressed psychiatrist. That’s not good public relations for your business, but it’s still out there. So consequently, people tend to alleviate it by various types of other consciousness behavior tactics called drugs; called addictive behaviors.
All these things deliver a death vote to you when you involve yourself in it. They all deliver a death vote. And that’s always a place inside of us where we’re hurt, where we haven’t lived fully. And often we have an investment in the death vote. I hurt; I have pain; I’ve earned it; I deserve it and you ain’t gonna take it away from me. And they’ll say that’s not so with me, and it’s so. Why? Well, they keep hangin’ on to it. They keep hangin’ on to it. Must we hang on to it?
The human consciousness regenerates itself every day, and if yours looks like yesterday, you didn’t regenerate very much. You’re running the death patterns and a good scientist looking at how you live your life, can say, “based upon all this, and based on the fat in your bloodstream, and all the things I know about you, you will live about this long and then you’ll die.” Is that a sure thing? Pretty sure. Can I reverse it? Yeah. How do I reverse it? Cancel the death vote. How?
Acknowledge you’re hanging on to your illness; acknowledge what it’s getting for you; acknowledge that you just want to be right even if you’re wrong. Just say, “Yeah, I’m doin’ those things.” Do you know if they’re true or not? No, I don’t know if they’re true, but if it could get me free, I’m willing to stand up and acknowledge that I’m dumb about it all. We call it confessing of sins. Just stand up and say I’m really dumb and stupid about all that and I think I know and I think I want to know, and I think I think. Which brings me to an interesting little thing I found in a magazine. It seemed to me to convey entirely the human consciousness and I’d like to read it to you. It’s very intellectual so you’ll probably get it. (Laughter)
It was written by` a guy named Henry Sedwick, and it goes like this, and I couldn’t get it that’s why I had to write it down, cause I’m not intellectual, as you’ve already found out. It goes like this, “We think so because, other people all think so, or after all, because we do think so, or because we once thought so and think we must think so, or because we once thought so and think we still think so, or because having thought so we think we will think so.” (Laughter)
How many people got that? Now for you others that didn’t, I’m gonna read it again. I’ve read it about fifteen times and I still don’t get it. I mean I understand it but I don’t have it in terms of repeatable.
“We think so because other people all think so.” That’s called opinion, O.K. “Or because, after all, we do think so or because we once thought so and think we must think so.” That’s called running the tradition. “Or because we once thought so and think we still think so.” That’s called being run by the child. At fifteen I thought I’d be a doctor, now I’m forty-two and I still wanna be a doctor. The child is still running me. “Or because having thought so, we think we will think so.” That’s called stinking thinking. (Laughter) There’s nothing new and vibrant in your life, you’re still running the same junk you ran yesterday.
We still run the junk about death that we ran before. We’ve seen people die, we’ve seen the horror movies, we saw the vampire bite ‘em, we saw em come back alive, we saw their ripped up face and the head and we say, “That’s death, Oh, that’s terrible. I’m frightened!” That’s Hollywood. In terms of film consciousness. But I’m not to sure that a lot of people’s life isn’t film consciousness anyway. I mean you get up in the morning and you put on the film you wanna run and you run it.
It’s a horror movie and all day long you run a horror movie. Or you get up in the morning and you put on the film; maybe we’ll lose all my money today or all my financial stability so you run out there and you run gambling stuff all day long. Or that day you get up and you think today my lover’s gonna leave me so you run regret and rejection, how to get even before they split, film. So I’m not too sure that we’re not all just a Hollywood matrix of some kind running a bunch of stuff.
But underneath that the person that pushes the projector button and runs it is us. So we’re running what we run for our own apparent good reasons. Our own apparent. In other words, we don’t gotta know what it is, it just seems like that’s the thing to do. And when questioned about it we come up pretty dumb. Why did you run that your wife was gonna leave you? Oh, I thought she was. Well, did ya think that once before? Yeah. So you ran that again? Yeah. Is that smart? Nope. You gonna keep runnin’ it? Yeah. (Laughter) Why? Cause I do that periodically. Can you stop it? Yeah. Are you going to? No. Why? He deserves it. (Laughter) Says who? Well, she deserved it once before when I did it so she probably deserves it again. You get how that thinking runs? If I thought it before I think it again.
Because we have been told by people “in authority” what death is all about and not knowing we took their thinking and run it as our thinking. And it’s been done in terms of morticians, and it’s been done in terms of apostles of God. Some of those people who are apostles of God, in my humble opinion, were not apostles of God. They were purveyors of doom under the guise of apostleship. And that puts me against an awful lot of people who are apostles. So be it.
And when they can bring the experience of life and demonstrate the experience of life, here now and hereafter, that’s the time I’m really interested in being with them and listening to ’em. And so far they don’t, all they do is quote what somebody said a long time ago. I’m not talking about that as life, I’m talking about your life as your life regardless of the scripture. You understand that? Not putting the scripture down or putting it aside, but regardless of that. Because in all the sacred scriptures there’s nothing in there about television and cars and we’re doing that. And I’m talking about that experience that has transcended scriptural reference point into the living now and the dying that will appear.
There are people in hospitals who are terminally ill and we go to the hospital to be with them to stand by, to hold the Light, whatever term that is, minister. And we lose track of what our job is there and we get caught up in the great emotional appeal that they are presenting in terms of wanting to live. And that spiritual presence is so close inside them that you want to do something for them. Because you feel the Spirit and you want to react to the Spirit. Then you say, “What can I do for them, I want to do something.” Well, why don’t you just say, “I wanna heal their body and get em out of there so that I can see that they’re really well and happy cause I love em.” Cause that’s what you’re talking about, and that’s not your job.
Your job is to go there and be with them so they may have the experience of transition without you getting in the way and muddying it for ‘em.
Comes a question, “What if they’re doped up with drugs?” I just have a real sad place inside me for somebody who wants to see God all doped up. “What about the pain of the body?” If we truly have been doing our spiritual exercises, we know how to withdraw the consciousness from the body in terms of the pain that is present and live above it in a state of consciousness while we have the transition. Those people that are practicing the spiritual exercises, the devotion to the Lord, are daily dying and daily being reborn again not as a word or as a phrase, but as a reality in their life. Like breathing in and breathing out. God, that’s important! Not, “I’ll do it the last two days before I die,” because at the last minute you’re gonna be “who’s minding the store?” and it’s gonna be very important to you that you know who’s minding what. Very important.
I want you to get something real clear. You’re here on this planet because you messed it up last time. You didn’t do it the way it’s to be done and you’re back here. And I want you to get something else clear again too, this may not be the last time too if you continue on like you’re doing. And don’t worry, it’s not the first time, it is sometime in between all the times. That’s good news and bad news. What does that mean? There’s optimum opportunity.
One other thing, get it real clear, God is in the business of forgiveness. If you’ve lost track of any of that, you’ve lost track of the joy that could be present in you, for you, by God in you and for you. And your thing that you died once is that you separated from the presence of the Lord who is present all the time. That death you’re living already. Now you’ve got to die to that state of separation which can be done while you’re alive, and move into it as a living reality and it’s a step up in consciousness, and let life zing through you as what it is. It’s ecstatic and its joyful, and it’s not a promise and it’s not a hope, it’s a living reality, a living presence. It’s just right there.
Have any of you ever smelt perfume from a flower? That’s how the Spirit moves. And, that flower was really nearby in order for you to smell it. And if you turned on that essence of perfume and start tracing it back you came to the source of where that’s coming from. But you must pursue it in order to get to the source. If the perfume seems to float interminably through the air, you got more of a job; you have to be more alert, more aware, more watchful than before. And it could be that you smell it for so long, you’ve lost track that it’s present.
But somebody new coming in will say, “Wow, that sure smells like roses.” Or, “Wow, that sure smells like this or that,” to refresh your mind once again of what you knew. And that’s what I’m here for, is to once again refresh your mind of what you know. You already knew all this stuff and you didn’t deal with it.
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START OF SIDE B
And it’s O.K. if you don’t deal with it now, but my job is to tell ya, and that’s what I’m doing.
The job I’m telling you isn’t to chastise you or making you wrong, it’s just to say, “folks, the light’s on and you can see it and I can see it. And it’s not on because I say so, it’s just I said so, and you can know it’s on if you just look.” And if you don’t care to look, I don’t know why you’re here. I don’t mean just here in this world, I mean here in this room.
‘Cause we’re noted to be lovers of God. And what God places out in the action, not what J-R thinks God places out in the action. Get that real clear. Because God is gonna do it in, and by, and for, and through you according to the scripture of your heart, according to what you’ve written there as your life experience.
If you’ve been writing death as your life experience why do you expect to get life? You’re gonna get what you’ve written. That’s just the way the darn thing works. Have you ever had people come up to you and know things about you and you wonder how on earth they knew it? Cause it’s written there for everybody to see who will look. And there are no secrets in the body of Christ. There never have been.
There are only people who do secretive things and talk about the secret best even while they’re doing it everybody knows about it, and the loving that’s present allows them to run their secret. Because why? Everybody knows, so go ahead and run it. And that running that that is not real is running your death. And we’re gonna run it because the mind’s been trained to run it in our educational pattern.
And I’m not talking about just the school system, I’m talking about this planet. We’ve been taught, “Don’t talk about it, that’s terrible. Don’t do that it’s terrible.” And yet we’re finding out that when we talk about death and we talk about living, often living has the most terror in it.
The stock market dipped the other day; I had never heard so many people call in the Light in my life! (Laughter) And they were saying, “God go in there and bolster the stock market!” God’s job is not stock market; God’s job is forgiveness. You asked the wrong person: you should’ve asked the President. Get it? That’s a little bit different approach. You’re gonna get what you ask for and it’s important to ask the ‘one who can deliver. There’s no need to ask the garbage man if he’s brought mail for you today. (Laughter) I know you get a lot of garbage mail though. I understand that. And it’s still best to ask the one who’s gonna deliver what they’re delivering.
When I’ve worked with people that are dying, somebody comes up and they says, “so and so died.” And I say “Oh? Nice.” They go “NICE?” “Yeah, nice.” “Nice!?” “Yeah, great. Absolutely great, fantastic.” “But they died!” “They did? Son-of-a-gun, I wasn’t aware they died; they’re living in God’s heart.” “Oh, nice.”
You’ve heard me talk about this planet as being the garbage can, a nice one, but still a garbage can. Yeah, it’s still O.K. And where the Lord resides in the more FULLNESS of the spirit is the paradise. It’s in us and it’s not in the world. There’s a biblical scripture that says– (And, and I don’t do these exactly. I massacre em.) And that’s for the people who are religious, they get to then search in their heart. But it goes something like– “Greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world.” And that can be looked at a lot of ways.
A lot of the people who follow a fundamental type of religion say that means Christ. And others say that means me, the soul. And others say that means me who is me and not my personality. Hey, I don’t care which one you’re dealing with, it’s still greater in you than in the world. Get it? Whatever term you want to call it, that or, And we don’t live in that one we live out here in the one who doesn’t know what’s going on. We live out here in the world of transitory things trying to make them permanent.
“Gees I hope I got enough money in the bank to last me ’til I die.” You don’t. “Gee maybe I better go gamble my money away.” Forget it, it’s already gambled away. As soon as you were born it was gambled away. Then you’re saying, “Well then, is there a reasonableness of living on the planet?” Yeah. There’s a real reasonableness called–not according to your greed, but according to your need, and that need is established, would you like to hear ‘em? Air, water, food, shelter, protection, and love. And everything else you get out there is greed. And those basic six fundamentals are supplied to you by nature and God itself. And you might say, “Well, if I didn’t go work I wouldn’t have this nine-hundred dollar suit.” I know, you might have a four-hundred dollar suit, or a hundred dollar suit, or a eighty-eight dollar suit, and, you’d still be clothed.
And it may be that you’d be wrapped in rugs and you’d still be clothed. And it may be that you wouldn’t need rugs cause you’d raise your consciousness high enough, you’d supply your own spiritual raiment, like the lilies of the field, and you’d be clothed in beauty. And if you don’t want to do those things, fine, and run your greed, but know that’s what you’re running and don’t run it as something else. You get the idea?
People come up to me and say, “J-R my greed’s still running.” I’ll say, “You’re in good territory.” They’ll say, “Really?” I’ll say, “Yeah, you know that, and you’re starting to deal with it.” Other people come up and they say, “This is running me.” And I’ll say, “it’s greed.” And they’ll say “No it isn’t, it’s hope.” “You’re crazy. You can never deal with it and change it and elevate it cause you’re gonna try to treat it as hope and it’s greed.” And they say, “Wait a minute,” and they start looking at the greed and they say, “you’re right, it’s greed, and I feel better that I’ve said that.” Scripture says, “stand up and confess your sins.” “I’m greedy.” People say, “God me too. I’m sure glad to hear the Pope’s greedy, or the Bishop, or the minister, or the banker’s greedy. I’m glad to hear that because then I don’t feel like I’m the one left out.” Always that “left out” is the dying process.
At some point in the moment of dying we decide to get married. No, that’s true. When you’re complete and whole, why do you want to get married? You’re whole and complete. The moment of dying; that means your lack is present and you feel like you can’t make it and life isn’t any good and there’s the anguish inside and the yearning and the longing, that’s the dying process. Somebody else comes to you and gives you the breath of life. And you take that breath of life and you adhere unto it and you start making it dying also. I can’t seem to fathom some place inside of me why two people in the body of God would get married and hurt each other. It’s just a real grief.
And that hurt you had years ago friends, fifteen years ago or twenty years ago, has got to be buried right now. You’re using it to kill the present. And that’s stupid. When you were younger, you made decisions and those decisions didn’t work and you got hurt. Fine. So you got hurt. Well, big deal. Bury it. Cause it was just an err in approach and come present, cause that’s where God resides is in the presence. Death resides in those other things. And yes, if necessary, grieve with your partner, and share with em, and cry with em and be with em until that thing purifies itself for what it was, just an err in approach. And it’s not living.
And we give it living by the consciousness of our spirit. We keep those things alive. And we run death on people and ourselves all the time. Oh, I said a terrible thing, or I hit em, or I hurt em, or I robbed em, and we keep running that and running that and fifteen years later we’re still running how we hurt em. It’s called guilt. And we think that if we feel guilty long enough that purifies it. Friends, if you throw mud, throwing more mud doesn’t make it pure. You understand that? It makes it muddy. You don’t want to have mud on you? Stop throwing it.
You see, we’re not alone and we’re not separate and that illusion that we are kills us. There’s not one person who dies who doesn’t leave us all a little bit more in a unusual place than before. And we hear of all those millions of people dying and that’s just statistics. It’s because you’re already dead and you don’t know it. “Oh, that’s them. Oh, that was that.” As you move more into the Spirit that is present with you you’ll move into the Spirit of all those people.
And at some point it will flash, recognition inside of you, that this is in truth–God doing God all the time and always has been and allowed us free will and we know that by our state of separation. That’s not free will, you’re paying for it. To separate from bounty, and joy, and abundance, believe me, there’s no freedom in that. That’s confinement and restriction and hurt.
And too many people say, “Well, I don’t want to give up my individuality to move into the Spirit.” Of course not, you’d rather be dead. You’d rather be the lone ranger and ride into the sunset as a romantic movie. Then you get to lay in bed with all the romantic thoughts through the head, except in the moment before you go to sleep the loneliness appears of “that’s just a movie in your mind.” It’s not real. And often that grieving and crying and that ache is very real cause its letting you know the absence of the Spirit. It is a tremendous teaching device. It’s so valuable and often that pain is one of the greatest awakeners.
And those people who come to the moment of physical transition, often are visited with such terrible pain that their agony screams out and distorts the body features. And then we poor humans looking back on it say, “Oh, that must have been terrible!” And, “Oh, I don’t like that. And death is terrible. And, Oh wow.” Except you don’t know that the person maybe right after that bust up laughing as they sit in God’s arms. You only saw the remnant.
I’ve never seen a good lookin’ corpse, not really. There always seems to be something dead about it. And the thing that’s always been beautiful about it has been the presence of the Spirit. That person that we’ve often labeled a name, when they’re present we strive mightily for the flesh. Why we will work with them until hell freezes over and we get busy tryin’ to freeze it over. Why? Because none of us want to strive in despair.
None of us want to strive in illness nor disease. And we will do that for the Spirit of that person and we don’t do it for the physical body cause it’s gonna die anyway. So when we’re busy takin’ care of people we’re not taking care of that disease and that body we’re taking care of who’s inhabiting that now, just now.
And we condemn and we curse the very disease that’s present. And we don’t have to say it verbally, and the reason why we’re doing that is cause we’re goin’ to work with them to get ’em well. And that doesn’t mean we’re gettin’ the disease well, we’re getting it away. We do indeed want that disease to die and we do indeed want to get the hell out of there, and we want that Spirit to fill the presence. Listen carefully. our illnesses in our body, our illnesses in our mind, in our emotions, are all exactly in proportion to the lack of Spirit present there. Don’t condemn yourself if you’re achin all over right now saying “Well, there’s not too much Spirit present.” Ha! Ha! Well, cause there might not be. So what! To have a healthy, robust mister or missus America or miss America body is also not the indication of Spirit present. It just means that you blew up the muscles.
What I’m saying to you is it may be to your advantage to not live in the fullness of the physical world and have all that vibrant health if all of that leads you into the path of destruction or separation. The Bible says if your eye offends you, pluck it out. Getting away from that approach, but still keeping the idea present, if something is going to take you downhill, why pursue it?
You know, I was talking to a beautiful young man in one of my travels who said to me “I wished I were healthier.” And I said, “oh yeah, really.” He says, “Yeah. I says when I was younger I was like a stud.” I said, “not like.” (Laughter) He says, “Oh! O.K.” He said, “And boy I just had a lot of sex and I really enjoyed it.” And I said, “fine.” He said, “And, now I’m just not really very well and every time I have sex, God, I really get sick afterwards and I’m sick for a long period of time.” And I said, “Yeah.”
He said, “So what I’d like the Traveler to do–” (Laughter) Of course I did the same thing you did I sit there in my mind and start laughing like; ah, ha, ha. And it was this–I want my body to be really healthy so I can go out there and pursue all my sexual desires. And I said, “No. Why do you ask the Traveler to make permanent that that is temporary when it only deals in the permanence?
And all the time that you are lusting, and all of that whole process, you had turned your face from God and you turned your face to a woman. And you weren’t even interested in her face. And I get that that’s not all that uplifting. And now your illnesses are visited upon you and you can’t have the sex you want.” The person said, “I just really can’t. I just really get sick, I mean I’m physically down and I go through colds and diseases and herpes, not the simple one — the complex one. And all of those social ramifications.” And I said, “Well, remember once, long time ago, you came up to me. And you said, “J-R will you hug me?” And I said, “If I do I’ll change your life.
Are your ready for you life to be changed?” And you said, “Yeah!” So I hugged you and started changing your life. Because your life was on the way to hell and now it’s on the way to heaven and every time you dip into hell you get sick. “Now,” he says, “does that mean I can’t have sex with a woman?” No, it means your attitude was lustful! And you were placing that as the god you worshipped and that god gave you all sorts of negative diseases and illnesses cause that’s all it could deliver.
Why don’t you get married, love one woman, adhere to her, make her and you as one and not make ’em separate of something you screw around with, pardon the expression, or fornicate with and make babies and don’t care, and maybe you don’t know if they’re out there or they’re not. That is irresponsible in the spirit of upliftment. And you’ve dammed yourself, and now you want me to help you get out of it by getting you into it more. No. No. No! Don’t ask because it’s a curse. You’re asking to be cursed. Give me hell so I can go to hell. No, stay sick and go to heaven.’
Then the statement was, “I thought life here was to be lived, to be enjoyed.” “Yes, it is. And yours is not enjoyment because you been having sickness after every sexual approach. You’re sick for a long period of time, tell me how much enjoyment you have out of three minutes of pleasure, and that’s on a big day?” (Laughter) Person said, “it’s dumb isn’t it?” He said, “not, J-R it’s not just me only. I know a lot of people like this, you know, I mean I talk to a lot of people.” “I know. You go to bed with em. I know they’re around. (Laughter) I don’t get they’re all just really innocent angels.” He said, “How do we deal with this?” I said, “To give in to the urge does not release the urge and it tightens it’s hold on you for the next time around. Stand firm and faith on the next temptation and do not give in. If you have to stand and swear, to not give in then those will be sacred words you utter. And you can just stand firm and not give in just by doing that. And you can also get out of the area. It’s called, “Get thou behind me.” It’s to turn away from it.
And the person did do that and got stronger inside and stronger and the Spirit started burning bright. And people were coming to this person because that bright Spirit. And this person was looking at them like, “Oh wow look who I’m attracting, more sex objects! Hye, hye, hye, that Spirit’s really nice to me. Wow, and they’re better than before.” Involved himself in it and death presented itself because it was lust that appeared not the upliftment of the person but the releasing of that person.
You know, and it boils down to, pardon the crude expression, “Oh, did you come? Oh, well I got to go now, sorry. No, I can’t sleep over. I just came here to do this and now I’m leaving. Naw, I really don’t care about you, I just cared about me and I used you.” And the person would have been further ahead to start right out in the beginning say, “Look this is just this. I’m gonna shower afterwards and I’m gonna be gone in twenty minutes. And I’m gonna say all sorts of things to you and forget em cause they aren’t going to have too much staying power. They’re gonna be the truth as I say it cause I’m gonna tell you that and they won’t have any staying power.” Which means what.
They’re really not the truth cause truth has staying power and it hangs in. Person said to me, “People won’t go to bed with me if I tell them that.” I said, “All your relationships then are fundamentally based upon a lie. And the father of that lie is the devil and that’s whose company you’re keeping and that’s whose household you’re keeping and that’s whose house you gotta clean.
And just get it real clear that that’s what you’re doing regardless of what you want to call it. The person said, “I get it real clear. I’m just gonna be honest and truthful.” And to and behold the next time they were honest and truthful they entered into a relationship. And I talked to him recently, had a funny sounding voice and I said, “um, guess what I think you were doing?” He said, “What was that?” And I said, “Oh, I think you had probably a little tiny relationship out there in the last week or so. He says, “How can you tell?” I said, “Cause you’re sick.” He says, “But not as bad as it used to be!” (Laughter)
Then he said, “I want to thank you.” I says, “Why?” He says, “Cause I called in the Light and I asked the Traveler for protection before I started.” I said, “None of it was present. Don’t thank me, maybe you want to thank your lucky stars and go look at your astrology chart because that’s the only thing that could have been guiding you. It wasn’t good common sense, nor was it respect for the other person nor was it upliftment, nor was it charity but it was just your stuff that you’re running again.” This person said to me, “God, I’m so glad you love me because nobody else will tell me. And you tell me and you tell me. When will I ever learn?” And I said, “Soon, I hope.”
I have other things to discuss besides sexual parts of a body. I have other things to discuss with you other than finances. I have a lot of things I want to deal with you that do not deal with this world. And if -that’s where you keep putting your head, that’s where I’ve got to go to get you out of it and I don’t want to and I will. And I don’t want to.
And I’m not gonna be real pleasant when I do it ’cause I don’t want you to think that it’s pleasant and that I’m gonna be pleasant when I do it. I’m gonna be hell on wheels. It may just be that when Jesus cleaned the temple he was hell on wheels too, Maybe he was lettin’ people know, I’m not doing it cause this is polite; I hate it. And I’m doing it once so it doesn’t have to be done again. And I’m doing it so bad you’ll never attempt it again. That could be a great learning device, couldn’t it?
God, just think, once if it was so bad we would withdraw forever from it. Except what, the freedom to approach God out of the willingness to do God’s will is gone then, it’s a process of robot-ness, of slavery. “Don’t I get to decent?” “Yeah, decent into hell or ascent into heaven?” “Is there necessity that if you decent you go to hell?” “Yeah, it follows.” “What about if I decent and change?” “It’s called education.” “Oh, in other words, if I decent and learn what that is and then grow, that’s progress. So I just don’t get to be a willy nilly follower.” “No! Check it all out. That’s called decent. And after you check it all out, that that works work it, and that that doesn’t work don’t keep running it it’s dead. Bury it. And let the Spirit resurrect it if it’s resurrected and not you.”
These things I’ve been talking about have all been the prelude to death in the physical body. And if your gonna deal with somebody now who’s terminally ill; somebody says come to the hospital so and so is dying, when you go there it’s O.K. to ask him this type of a thing in terms of a statement: “I don’t know what’s best for you right now. I wished I knew what was best for you, I don’t know.
Could we both ask the Lord, if you believe in em or you don’t, for some advice about how to go about this? Can we just both sit and be quiet with each other for a moment and you ask in your way and I’ll ask in my way. Or, if you’d like to ask verbally your way and I’d like to ask verbally my way and if they’re both different ways let’s do that also. Why? Cause when two or more are gathered in my name I become present and I don’t care what the name is but the name must be written in the heart and it must deal with life eternal.
You see it’s just got to be those things. If it just isn’t those things, I don’t know who’s company you’re keeping. I know that every person keeps the company of God but their personality does not. And it’s that personality that we deal with continuously as the battle and we never have battles with the soul.
When we’re soul to soul we’re a fortress that doesn’t have to fight nor defend. We just become delightful and joyful people and we’re known as God’s lovers. And yeah, and a lot of people don’t like it, but in the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness we do an awful lot of physical hugging. And a lot of people just “don’t touch me.” It’s like you better be touched. You better be touched by everybody cause you don’t want to be touched by anybody. Until one day it’s, if you touch me you do, if you don’t you don’t and all that’s the same, then comes the freedom.
Gee we’ve been so long in the darkness of our own ages, just so long, if enlightenment comes at the last breath this life has been totally worthwhile and blessed. If enlightenment doesn’t come at your last breath and never came, you just walked through another living death. No living love was present and you had emotions and you had good feelings and no living love was present.
I’m talking about present in means of demonstration and application and verification. You demonstrate it you apply it and the other person says, “Yes, I got that. I understood it. It came clear. It cane clear even when your words weren’t clear. I got it in spite of your vocabulary. I got it in spite of your body. I got it in spite of everything because somehow I got it.” And that’s the part I keep living and working with. That part that gets it regardless.
And believe me I can turn you off, in the personality only, just like that (snaps his fingers), fast. And I can turn you on in the Spirit faster because that’s really who you are and that’s who I deal with. You may be turning on but it may take you a long time to stop that outward thrust into the world as you put the skids on your life and turn around and start heading back in to who you are and, my God, that can be painful cause you’re gonna confront all of your creation. All of it. That’s good news friends because you get to also correct it in attitude cause there’s no way you can correct it in retrospect.
You can’t go back twenty years in attitude. And you know what that attitude reads? It goes like this: “Oh Gee, here it is twenty years ago I said that terrible thing to my mother. Oh God! Well, that’s the way it was. I said it when I said it, that’s gone.”
“Just like that?” “Yeah.” “Why?” “She’s gone I can’t reach her physically and when I reach her in the Spirit I don’t want to have to carry that thing between us again. The first thing I see my mother in Spirit I gotta say, ‘I’m sorry I said twenty years ago I didn’t love you.” She’s probably gonna smack you again. (Laughter) I know if I were to go to my mother in Spirit and go up to her and say, “Hi Mom, I love you,” instead of anything else short of that, she’d probably kick me right back down here saying, “You didn’t learn when you’re with me, you didn’t learn now. Back again.”
Someone said, “When I see God, I got a few things to ask him.” I said, “No you haven’t.” They said, “Why? I said, “When you see God, everything else is gonna be O.K. There’ll be nothin’ to ask.” (Laughter) “You won’t need any explanation about anything, being present will be totally enough.” And that’s why when people see it they don’t come back here to tell you what’s going on because why? Why should they, they found what they’re after and you’re going to too.
And there’s no need to ask anybody in the Spirit world what God’s about if they can come back and talk to you cause I’ll tell you what, they don’t know. Cause if you’re in the presence of the Lord you don’t come back. And if they’re comin’ back and givin’ ya information that person hasn’t been in the presence of the Lord they’re in the presence of something else.
And you might just want to like take that entity and bless ’em and attempt to get him to go back into the Heart of God instead of stayin’ where they are cause that’s death also. To stay where you are is living death. What do we call it? “Boring.” What else do we call it? “I’m not interested in that stuff. That’s wrong. That’s not good.” We make it all wrong so we don’t have to participate. Biblical scripture says, “And God looked upon the world and said, ‘That’s good’.” And that was after he put man here, so how can we make it bad?
I’d like to get another couple things really clear and then we’ll close it. There’s only death and dying to those people who die. The initiates of God who live on that word that God sent forward, which is God’s own name, those who live on that and travel on that word of God back into the Heart of God know about that long before the body dies. So their moment of death is just a quick step or a two-step or a, hay ha, grand jetée, or maybe just a petite jetée depending on how far you gotta jump.
And some of you who are present will not be present in nineteen eighty, physically, you better be present spiritually with the Lord. The initiates of the Traveler are all present with the Lord all the time. Because that’s what that is and it is nothing else than that. And it is not because you’re in the physical world it’s because you’re in the Spirit because God is Spirit and must be worshipped in the Spirit.
And that spirit is not to sit and cite the psalms to God. When you see the Lord you don’t say, “Yea, thou walk through the valley of the shadow of death.” None of that is present. How do I know that? Because I say so? Travel inside and you’ll know how I know that. Travel inside to where the Lord resides and you’re gonna find out who’s there. Take my word for it? Naw, find out for yourself.
“Would it be easier if I take your word for it?” “Yeah!” “Why?” “Cause you won’t have to run all the proving patterns which takes time, you get to just go ahead and run all the progressive patterns and get there. But running the proving patterns is still O.K., you can still get there that way and it’s longer and it’s more difficult and that’s how I did it. So I’m not gonna condemn the method I used but I can tell ya, if I were doing it again I wouldn’t do that one. I’d just do the “whisst” go right through and do it, ‘cept my mind was one of “That can’t be.” And everything had to be proven, that can’t — I died a awful lot before I ever proved anything.
Do we have a lot of time? Oh yeah. “Then how come I’m impatient?” “Cause that’s your personality. You were supposed to do it in one. Come down, experience God’s body here the devotion to the Lord here in this far away country and somehow you got confused about what all that meant and the veil of memory was taken from you, or you were placed in forgetfulness and the thing that’s important is you must remember to be here now all the time living.
Because you see we’re a member of God, and I call it Christ, you call it whatever you want to cause that ain’t gonna bother me, what I know I know and that satisfies me, except I’m always looking at it, and — interesting thing is the Holy Spirit just started moving across the room in a tangible form. It brings a comfort that all I want to do is just shut up.
Baruch Bashan.