An Interview with Randy Garver [Part 2]

By: David Sand

May 1st, 2018


NDH: What was it like traveling with J-R in the physical world?

Randy: Hanging out with J-R was always an adventure. One time we went on another trip, a PAT IV [a series of annual spiritual journeys to the middle east from 1984 through 1990—ed.] in Egypt. J-R was doing two PAT IV’s, and then they punctuated it with a Greek cruise in between, and on the Greek cruise, about 60% or 70% of the people got sick, and I think J-R got hammered a little bit as well. Then they had to do the second PAT IV. J-R was not feeling well, and he was very grumpy. It was like, okay, give J-R a lot of physical space. Interestingly enough, I took my godson Jeffrey with me. He was 10 at the time. And J-R would just welcome the children coming to him and meeting with him and climbing on him. He wasn’t feeling that well, but it seemed like it really enlivened him.

There was another trip to Canada that we were on where it was basically the sleeping trip. We were going through the Canadian Rockies. It was magnificent. I’d been through these areas quite a bit. I would come to from this deep sleep and the tour guide would say, “We’re about to pass the most beautiful places, I have to wake everybody up. I have to televise it.” I said, “Don’t do it. You just enjoy the trip. You don’t do anything.”

Apparently we were all re-working some kind of a karmic thing deep in the center of the earth, and that part of the earth needed a particular focus that our group could produce.

On a lot of the trips, there were just these amazing experiences that would take place, often connected with clearing the karma of a country or region. One was the famous trip to Russia, going into East Berlin, when J-R put a “light worm” in the Berlin Wall and predicted that it would come down within a couple of years. And that happened. On this same trip we were going into Russia, in an area called Tbilisi, which was near the Armenian homeland. We had this tour guide who was Armenian, and she’s going on and on and on about the Turkish genocide of the Armenian people, and we’re all exhausted but she keeps going on dramatically about how the Armenian people were trying to purify their blood by just marrying other Armenians.

She’s is going on and on, and so J-R says something like, “How do you determine the bloodlines?” She says, “Well unlike the Jews where the bloodline is passed through the women, with the Armenians it’s passed through the man.” J-R said, “Let me get this straight. If an Armenian man had sex with a pig” (and he used a cruder word for sex) “then the offspring would be Armenian.” Well, the woman couldn’t believe what he just said. From that point on, she didn’t say anything else for the rest of the trip. I was looking at J-R and wondering why he would say something like that. What I saw taking place was that through the creation of them being special, it was equivalent of painting a big target on your back and setting yourself up for another genocide. Because people around somebody who feels that they are really special often are brought down to whatever the level of the group is. It was interesting to me that he would be willing to go to that level to, as I saw it, break an energy flow.

I had an experience one time on an Africa trip where we were going to see the mountain gorillas in Rwanda. They would only allow six of us per day to do it and I think they were 24 in our group. We had to hang out in this place and it was very unpleasant. It was like a Twilight Zone, because a lot of the adults were gone and 80% of the population was under 10 years old. It was kids everywhere, often unsupervised. Myself and three or four other people went down to a farmer’s market placing light columns and doing that kind of thing, placing blessings. Later that afternoon, I started not feeling too well and I ended up going to lie down. I fell asleep and as I was sleeping, I went into this dream where I started levitating. Then I went through the ceiling and I went through this level that felt like ooze. I popped through and it was like I was in a Hieronymus Bosch painting of people bathing each other, poking each other, devils being cruel, torturing.

I’m screaming but what my wife hears is “Help me!” But voiced softly but with great distress. It took a lot of shaking, but she finally woke me up out of the dream ooze. I’ve never been so hot on the inside and cold on the outside. Then it would shift I’d never been so cold on the inside and hot outside. Then finally dinner comes and I see this group of about three or four people that I was with, lined up in front of J-R. I follow them and he starts doing things energetically, working the energy in my body and lifting certain things off of me. Basically, we had walked into a witchdoctor’s thing, and we had walked into his level of control, and we were screwing that up because of the light work we were doing, so he put the mojo on us.

J-R said, “Your fear is what allowed the negativity to come in on you As a minister and initiate of the Traveler, you have dominion over all of these realms; high or low. You lost track of that. As a result of losing track of that, the negativity could come in.” That was a very, very powerful experience. It got me to a place where for years I was having dreams of dealing with entities and moving them out and on, and coming to a place where I knew even if they had bad breath, I couldn’t react to the bad breath because that’s how they would attack me. I’d be taking them into my body and shooting them out through my crown chakra. Just like a big vacuum cleaner. It was a good job.

NDH: Were there other things J-R said to you that had a major impact on you?

Randy: Well, one of the things that he said to me was, “Randy, your life has been like a speeding train.” He said, “You don’t have to worry about people getting in your way because people just don’t get in the way of a speeding train.” He says, “You don’t have to worry about who gets on the train because the Light will be the conductor and will only allow those people in your life who are supposed to come into your life. If anybody strikes out against you, or there is a negativity or something like that, you don’t have to worry about trying to balance out those people, because the Light will do it.” He says, “Well, you might be either too restrictive or maybe too lenient, but the light will hold them to exactly what they have to experience. Prior to them being able to move into higher consciousness, they will have to clear that, but that’s not something that you have to do prior to that.”

That gave me huge freedom. Because I’m out in the world and I’ve had people do some nasty stuff. I’ve been in relationships with people and all of a sudden the relationship is over. What? How did that happen, what is that? Because of that counseling, it was easier—not easy, but easier—to let it go and move on. Invariably at some point in time, for the most part, those people would come back and review what was going on with them and why, and what that was. It saved me a lot of heartache.

There are a few occasions where J-R would talk about a past life but for the most part, it was just creating a clarification. In one particular circumstance, I was around when Jesus’ spirit left the body. I was a Roman soldier at the time. He had extended the Christ consciousness to me. I was torn apart inside. J-R said, “A centurion walked by, and said, ‘What have we done? We’ve killed the son of God.’ Then I said to myself, ‘Why him God, who’s so perfect and not me? Why not me?’” J-R said, “That was a judgment of the Spirit and an action of the Christ. It’s very, very difficult for people to get spiritual karma but just that thought and that feeling allowed spiritual karma to come onto you.” He said, “You’ve already cleared that but it still has a shadow on you.”

It was very interesting. It’s like, oh my God, something as trivial and as simple as that judgment on a spiritual action and the implications of that, and ultimately what I had to do to clear that, was remarkable to me. And it’s given me pause at times when I’m ready to judge anything or anyone.

NDH: How would you say that J-R has affected your life?

Randy: Well, I wake up in the morning and he’s my first thought. I walk through the day and he pervades my consciousness. When I go to sleep at night, I’m in that. In terms of how he’s affected my life… it’s profound. It saved my life initially or helped give me that opportunity. Not that he did it, but at least he was a conduit of Spirit or Spirit used him as a conduit to enable me to continue on in my life. I’ve always had a kind of loving nature and I think that the nature of the support that I received from him would only allow me to embrace that in a much bigger way.

In one of my first light studies, J-R said, “You’ve tasted of the cup of bitterness at a very young age.” My family split up. There were a lot of issues. I think there was other karma on top of that. He said, “You’ve built walls around yourself, thinking that you were protecting yourself from people.” He said, “The problem was, you threw the key to the door of those walls outside of the walls.” At the time, I had done some drugs and such and he said, “You felt like the drugs were helping break down the walls but basically because it was outside of you, the moment that you got off the drug, there was the wall again.” In working with him, he really assisted me in releasing that bitterness. To this day, there are times when stuff comes up and I think oh my God that’s part of that thing that he identified so early in my life.

From the age of 18 on, J-R was like my mentor. I put myself in his presence as much as I possibly could. More often as a devotee as opposed to physically or actively working with him. I did a lot of things that were that were in support of MSIA, such as helping design the gardens in Prana—creating an environment that touches people. One time I said, “Well, J-R, what is it that I can do, how can I best serve?” He said, “Well, it’s not like you’re going to be the one up front but you’re going to be the one that supports the person who’s up front. Yours will be where the people who are involved in the organization will need to research something. You’ll hear about that and then you’re going to come up to them and say, ‘Oh, well I’ve already done that research. I already know how to confront that issue. Here is all the information that will help you do that which then accelerates whatever it is that they are working with.’” Over the years, that’s been the kind of work that I’ve done.

At one point, I was on the phone with J-R and we were talking for a while and he wouldn’t get off the phone. I didn’t have anything else to say to him, but I didn’t really want to get off the phone. I was always very careful not to waste his time or bring personal issues to him. He said, “Well there is something else right now.” I said, “J-R I don’t know what it is.” He said, “Well, think about it for a second. Just let it go and see what comes up.” I said, “J-R, there was a point in time right after we got Prana when it was clear that I could go on staff or I could keep doing my business, supporting myself so that the Movement didn’t have to pay for me, so that I could just be of assistance and do what I could. I chose to do that but there is a part of me that felt like I let you down in not letting that part go and just being on staff.” He said to me, “Randy, you created greater value for me by virtue of you gaining experience in the world and being able to use that experience when we could use that experience.” That was very profound.

For a while, I started having these dreams with this unbelievably beautiful woman who I just absolutely adored and who adored me. It became this repetitive dream, but not every night. After the dream, I’d come back here and I’d be so miserable. This kept going on for a while. Finally, I went to J-R. I said, “J-R I don’t want to bug you about personal matters but there is something that just keeps going on and I can’t find a way clear.” I said, “I’m having this dream with this person, and in the dream even we’ve made a deal where we’ll just keep looking in each other’s eyes, so that somehow maybe she could be here in this world with me. Then I wake up and there is nobody there.” I said, “Is some entity trying to attach itself? Is there some soul mate that’s out there that I haven’t met yet? Is there somebody on the other side and we’ve been together in the past and we’ve had great love together?”

J-R looks up at me and he says, “No, Randy. It’s none of those things. That is your soul. It’s presenting itself in a form that you could recognize.” It was so profound hearing that because it gave me the ability to recognize that and connect to that. I looked at all the women that I had gone out with and relationships and all these things that I’d done throughout my life, which were really about searching for that connection or that person or that thing. Then, I’m finding it and moving on, I’m finding it and moving on. It’s been a very powerful thing for me and he says, “It’s not often that people will have the experience of their soul prior to leaving the body or as they’re leaving their body, because it makes it very, very challenging, very difficult to live here, because that thing is always calling you.” In certain respects that really assisted me because it helped me recognize that that thing that I was looking for outside of myself is really deeply entrenched within me.

NDH: What did you like most about hanging out with J-R?

Randy: Well, we had a lot of fun with the Windermere thing and with the horses thing because we were very connected in that and we had a similar kind of an interest. I loved helping find these great stallions that we got and bringing them to Windermere. It was like a break for J-R just to be J-R and do, not the public J-R thing, but maybe just the “Roger.” I always enjoyed that part. There’d be times where, let’s say in Africa, it’s the middle of the night and the moon is full, and we’re on this bluff looking out over this river bottom and you can hear these wild elephants crashing around in the distance. So there was this beautiful presence of being at times with J-R—but I have to say that probably more often than not, I wasn’t really comfortable being around J-R, quite frankly. I mean, I wanted to be around him, but junk would always be getting stirred up inside of me, which was good. But it was not always comfortable.

One of the things that was very funny, or I should say ironic, was that there’d be times where I’d get a call from my mom and she’d say, “Oh, J-R popped by.” Here I was living at Prana, and I would beg for attention or beg for acknowledgment. I’d say, “Really?” She’d say, “Yeah, he came in about 11:00 and didn’t leave until about 4:30 or 5:00 in the morning.” It was interesting because J-R loved going up and hanging out with them, and I know it was because they didn’t put him on a pedestal. They didn’t try to make him the guru. They just related him as a great guy, a good family friend, that kind of stuff.

There is one other very powerful experience. It was after a Founders Dinner, those marathon Q&A fundraisers. Those things would start about 3:00 in the afternoon and by the time J-R went through all the people’s questions, it was about 3:30 or 4:00 in the morning. Well, I didn’t really have a question but I felt almost obligated to say something because I’d donated all that money. There is always that thing of, what’s the missing piece that’s going to complete the puzzle. I asked J-R a very, very simple thing. I said, “J-R, can you help me become more physically aware of the Spirit? I want to be able to know the Spirit in a greater way.”

We drove home. We got back about 4:30 or 5:00 in the morning. I fell asleep. I went into a dream. In the dream it was the equivalent of going through the eye of a needle. I’ve heard it described as the terror of God. Basically, it was a separation of the negativity and the illusion from my consciousness, which would enable me to perceive the Spirit directly, because that stuff can’t exist in that consciousness. But the challenge with all of that is that a lot of the illusions that we have support us in being here a physically. We have to have some level of karma. But an experience like that dream experience reveals it all to you. I came back in the body and I was in this state of euphoria in one sense but in the other sense totally defenseless and just wide open. Well, this happened maybe a couple of days before or after the 9/11 event.

Now, I was in a business where I was going into people’s homes. They had televisions blaring, watching the buildings fall down, with all the emotional stuff related to that, and I was walking into those fields of energy. Literally, it took me maybe three to four years to not be as vulnerable. I actually hired this woman in MSIA to drive me. I’d go into a meeting and we’d do muscle testing and clearing the moment it was done. It taught me a lesson though that you’ve got to really be careful what you ask for. The most innocent thing that you could be asking for, especially if you ask the Traveler or you ask J-R, especially when he was carrying the mantle, can come true, so you’d better be careful.

NDH: Were there ways that your relationship with J-R changed over the years?

Randy: Well I think it changed dramatically because I stopped seeking from him physically and started really connecting more inwardly. I think that, like I said, I did the movement of spiritual outer awareness for years and years and years. There was always the thing going on inside but my perspective was different. I think as I moved, more was opened up for me to experience. Now, one of the other things that was shared with me early on was that I’d chosen my parents specifically for their genetic structure. The intellectual comprehension I got from my father, but I got this psychic-intuitive thing from my mom and her side of the family. My mother was a psychic. Her aunts were psychics, always psychics and psychics. So it never shocked me or amazed me being around somebody who could tell you stuff that wasn’t apparent, because that was the way it was around my family. I also saw in my mom that being psychic wasn’t easy nor was it fun because her picking up stuff and taking stuff on was really challenging. One of her methods of dealing with it would be that she would go to the other side and connect with these beautiful faces and beings that were there for her. In a light study she had with J-R, she told him this. He said, “Betty, I might have to do something and you’re not going to be happy with what I’m going to do. But this is in your best interest.” He said, “Those beings that you’re experiencing and getting comfort from are not angels. They are entities attempting to attach to your energy. I will make them appear as they actually look, not the illusion that they are presenting you.”

My mom would go in to try to tie into that connection and then these hideous monsters would be there. He had forced her more into the world, more into handling her personal life and less into being part of the other side. Basically, he said that the genetic structure that I had chosen with the family allowed the higher Spirit to move through my being, and that I would be able to perceive into the higher Light because of that. For years I would go to events, like Living in Grace or something, and I would be just fried as the Light would be coming through me. It gave me great empathy for John Morton and all that he was carrying for J-R.

Then I ended up getting involved with the Doctor of Spiritual Science program. Initially, I thought there was no way that I was going to finish it. My agreement with myself was that I’ll just do one weekend at a time. Next thing you know, I went for seven years or something. What I came to realize with that was an old adage that J-R said about the seat of the pants on the seat of the chair. It was almost like the wisdoms that J-R would impart – the philosophies and stories and spiritual teachings that were part of his thing – were really in certain respects just a hocus-pocus to keep our attention, so we’d keep the seat of the pants on the seat of the chair. The Spirit was really working and strengthening the inner structure so we could be able to handle the higher Light at a greater frequency and for a greater duration. I found that after a few years of being in the DSS I started connecting dots so I could go to the Living in Grace retreat and I didn’t have that claustrophobia or that feeling of just being fried. I could carry the brighter Light, or the stronger Light. It’s an interesting thing that the commentaries on living and all of the teachings and all of the anecdotes and experiences that I’ve had directly with J-R were all great. I love that and I love that part of my life. But there was this other quality of Spirit working with me to clear the stuff that was between it and me. It wasn’t an epiphany by virtue of, “oh there is the hidden teaching.” It was more being in the place where Spirit was.

So with J-R’s passing, I’d already been preparing myself for J-R’s leaving, because it was always really surreal to me to see him so ill, knowing how dynamic his spirit was and is. Hanging in as long as he did was a testament to him and to John. I don’t know that J-R would have stuck around or could have stuck around without John carrying and holding the Light and doing his part. Now that J-R’s gone, it seems to me that the keys that he holds were given to each of us in a more dynamic way so that we can access those awarenesses. I just know there is a real difference.

In certain respects, I’m more connected to him now than I ever was when he was around. There are times where I’ll have dreams with him and it’s a very powerful experience. I can experience that elevation of consciousness with other people I know as well. I don’t consider this unique to me.

I’m no longer searching for some missing piece. My purpose is very simple and clear. I’m taking better care of myself, caring for my daughter and wife. That’s the focus of my purpose, that’s the focus of my spiritual direction.

The inner part of my relationship with J-R is ongoing. I also recognize that I’m a reference point for a lot of people because I’ve been around for so many years. I keep coming back because there is value in coming back. It was like this year I thought, oh well, I can watch the conference online, I don’t have to go and be uncomfortable being there. But I got this really strong hit that I needed to be there doing the workshop. Since that individuation of Spirit has been disseminated by J-R to each of us in certain ways, I needed to be physically present. Maybe that’s my ego, maybe that’s whatever it is, but it was a pretty clear message that it was important for me just to be there. I don’t have to say anything. I don’t have to demonstrate anything. I don’t have to proselytize to anybody. I walk into the presence, and that presence of Spirit, that presence of the Traveler is with me.

In certain respects, the dynamic of my relationship with J-R is greater now than it was in the past. My admiration is such that even the thought of J-R brings an enormous amount of love present. I can’t even imagine what life would be without him, nor do I want to.

Yeah, we miss him, my daughter Ruby misses him in a real way. One time, before he passed, in the morning I’d gone to work and my wife Andre calls me and said, “Ruby is inconsolable. She’s crying and crying and she wants her dad.” I said, “Well, I’ll come home.” Then she said, “Well, it’s something else.” Ruby said, “No, I want my first dad, not daddy but my first dad.” Finally, I said, “You mean J-R?” “Yes, J-R, my first dad.”

At the time she was probably about five or six. I came home and I talked to her and I said, “Well, I’ll see what I can do.” I contacted J-R’s staff to arrange for her to get into a dinner with J-R in Montecito. When she saw him she jumped up on a chair and yelled out, “Daddy! Daddy!” He took her in his arms and talked to her for a while.

The consciousness that J-R represents is everywhere. In 1972 or ‘3, I was working in Bucharest, Romania. I had a girlfriend there. We became engaged, but it was impossible to get her out of the country. She lived in a basement with this older woman who was part of the old aristocracy. As citizens, they couldn’t go into special shops to buy quality food. I’d buy fresh food and fruit for them. The older woman wanted to give back to me and she knew how to do Tarot. She had this old deck of cards, but I was thinking, “Oh! I don’t want some psychic thing…” But I knew this was coming from her heart and it was the only way that she could repay me. So we lit a candle. I asked J-R to come in. We were in Bucharest, in this basement, and in Bucharest in winter it’s freezing. She started doing these patterns with her cards. Her cards were so old the faces were practically worn off. She started talking and she was pegging me pretty well. Then she said, “There is this person who’s thinking of you.”

This woman was 85 and kind of crippled. Then she did another series of cards and once again, she said, this person was thinking of me. This happened four, five, six times. Finally, I shared that I had asked J-R to be part of this with us. She told us, “J-R is here.” So there we were in the bottom of this basement and she all of a sudden experienced a kind of enlightenment. She started dancing around the room saying, “He’s here, he’s here, the beloved is here with us now!” It was a very powerful experience because I was physically 7,000 miles from J-R.

Then, a couple of years ago, I got a real strong hit to go be with some Native American friends and do these ceremonies with them. We did this trip and I took Andre and Ruby. We drove our motorhome all the way up to eastern Wyoming where one of the first ceremonies would take place.

Before we went there, I had a dream:

I’m in primordial nature. There is a little pond that’s dark. It’s not stagnant, water is moving through it, but it’s very still. There is this trunk of a tree and it’s coming out of it. Then I see this beaver type creature coming out of the water and onto the branch. I get an inner message that I have to protect the creature spiritually so it will not be attacked by negativity.

As it’s moving up the tree, it’s transforming. When it’s about mid-way up, it is like this sea anemone with this vibrant color like an orangey yellow. It’s shooting out colors and light off of its tendrils. It finally goes up into the top of the tree, and from there it jumps into the sky, becoming a star.

At that time I was not familiar with Sioux culture.

Fast-forward into the journey to Wyoming: I was sitting with a Sioux Chief who is the 19th keeper of the Sacred White Buffalo Calf Bundle. Sitting Bull was also one of these keepers. I told the chief about my dream because I knew it had significance. He paused for a few minutes taking in the spirit of the dream. Then he said, “Well you know, the Sioux people are known as the star people.”

Later learned that the Sioux people are in a covenant with God for the renewal of the earth. Every year they do ceremonies and sacrifices. They do these ceremonies to renew the earth and fulfill their covenant. They also have a philosophy, which recognizes the multidimensional aspect of human beings including the astral, causal, mental and etheric levels. These are part of their evolving into higher consciousness as star people.

After a long journey with these Native Americans, I was invited to participate in a Sun Dance Ceremony with the Cree nation. I was invited to sit and be with them on their breaks. They would take this time to share experiences. One of the guys turned to me and said, “Well, I’m having this experience with you. The first day you came and I saw you; I saw this white horse standing next to you. It was like you could see through it, but it was a white horse and it was standing in protection of you.” Then he said, “What I saw the other day was this dragon chasing you, but that there was this white buffalo blowing smoke confusing the dragon. The dragon was out to get you and the dragon represented some health issues.” Then he said, “Then I saw the luminescent white horse again. The horse has a name.” He said, “The name of the horse is Traveler.”

Then I said, “I’ve come here to share something with you and it’s your choice whether you choose to have this or not. I’m representing a quality of Spirit that you can be initiated into if you choose. While I’m not the one initiating you, I’m the one that’s holding that energy so that you can choose into it.”

It was a powerful experience and the people who chose in, chose in fully. Interestingly enough there are people now years later who contact my chief friend and say, “I’m having this dream with this thing called the Traveler, what is that?”

These experiences I’ve just shared show the breadth and depth of what I would call J-R and the energetic he represents and works with.



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love it especially the Armenian story

Randy, thanks so much for sharing this. It’s so beautiful. God Bless the Sioux.

Thanks for sharing that Randy, God Bless you❤️❤️

Many thanks for shedding further Light on missing elements in my long experience with MSIA, strengthening my close connection with J-R and the Traveler

Thank you for sharing this. Thank you for your presence and your loving.