The following question and answer session with John-Roger is from a Spiritual Exercises Retreat in Chicago in June, 1988.
Q: If we have a Soul inside of us that is perfect and if we started off perfect before we came here to this planet, why do we have to go through this “hell,” so that we can go through these experiences, so that we can progress, so that we can go back and be perfect?
J-R: The Soul being perfect does not equate to the Soul being experienced. If being here were based upon the Soul’s perfection, then the Soul would not be here to start with. But the Soul’s job is to gain experience, and one of the ways it can do that is by coming here. The Soul is to gain experience and to become a co-creator with God. Perfection does not know how to create. It is a being state. It also does not know right-wrong configurations; it sees these situations only as a perfection in the whole.
Creativity is differentiation. For example, when I can differentiate the microphone from your body, I have done a creative thing. When I can make this microphone on me as effective as the microphone in front of you, I have once again differentiated, and that differentiation is creativity.
Then, instead of judging the differentiation, which is the negativity of life, we learn to evaluate the differentiation and see how we can differentiate it again. Your microphone is connected to a cable, and the sound from mine is transmitted through the air to a receiver. But the speakers don’t know the difference. They cannot differentiate the creativity of my microphone from the creativity of your microphone. They only differentiate the plug-in and the ohm impedance that goes through it, so it’s not a high level of creativity because it can only differentiate a few things.
It’s helpful to be able to differentiate more and more inner and outer things in our life — not as a method of right and wrong because that’s war, but as a progress of differentiation, which is peace. And it’s also progress, in terms of this world, because we can differentiate more and more and more, until we go one way into almost nothing; microchips are an example. If we go the other way, into the cosmic, it’s called astronomy.
Both of those directions are finite until we go across the barrier into the cosmic elements, or the Spirit. Infinity means without boundaries. So, at the point between contraction and expansion, going either way, is infinity. The yogis say samadhi is between the blinks of the eye, between when the eye is closed and when it opens. At the moment of moving from expansion to contraction, going either way, up or down, we have infinity. Staying there is difficult because the world pulls on us, so we come back to our conditioned energy of the body. We gain the experience; we differentiate; it becomes creativity. The creativity becomes Godlike, and on that we rise into the Spirit of God, the whole Spirit, and become a co-creator over other dimensions and principalities.
It is the experience that brings the differentiation. Untried Souls are utopian in their attitude. A newborn child is an example of this — it has no differentiation. We’re probably as close to God in that form of the newborn as we are with the person who, just before dying, goes into the utopian, who actually has given up to God and the dying process. One is utopian, going into the condition (the differentiation), and the other one is going out of the condition into utopia.
On the earth, we cannot have utopia. It’s an impossibility because there is no progress in that. So, we have to have an out-of-balance state in order to have progress. Then we come back into balance and enjoy it, and then we go out of balance to make progress, and then we come back into balance to enjoy it.
Q: I’m not quite clear on how growth and awareness relate to differentiating without judging and how this relates to becoming a co-creator.
J-R: When you judge, you come under the law of Moses — an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. When you are judging, you are really saying, “I’m judging the law,” and if you are judging the law, you’re judging the Creator of the law. At that moment, you cast yourself into “sin” because you have missed the mark of understanding what that’s all about. By following the law, you can evolve through life, but by coming under Spirit, you are lifted above the law by grace, and you then fulfill the law and you become the law.
Jesus said, “I didn’t come to destroy the law, I came to fulfill it.” He fulfilled it, and he also said, “Since I fulfilled it, you do it now by grace. You don’t have to fulfill the law anymore.” It’s like giving you a bank credit card that somebody else pays. And there is no limit on the charge.
There’s a thing called judgment, and then there’s another thing called evaluation. Judgment would be, “I become a reference point, and you have no say-so.” For example, I judge if I say, “You’re too short.” “Too” becomes a judgment. If I say, “You’re five-foot-eight,’ that becomes an evaluation of your height. One is a judgment, and the other is observation and evaluation. If I stand by you and say, “Well, he’s a little taller than I,” that’s just evaluation. I didn’t say, “I’m too short,” which is a judgment. I just said, “He’s a little taller than I.”
If there is a contest where you’re choosing the best dog, you then have to have an ideal dog as a reference. But since we don’t have the ideal human, we have no reference for judging ourselves or others. We may have biblical statements about an ideal human, but we don’t really know what that is because we have no direct, physical experience of one. But still, we may beat ourselves in the head with our fantasy or idea of what the ideal human is. That’s just lying to ourselves.
Q: I see how the judgment cuts us off from the Creator, but I don t see how the nonjudgmental differentiation leads to co-creatorship.
J-R: Edison invented the light bulb, and supposedly it took him one thousand tries before he succeeded. If he had judged the first attempt, he might not have done the second one. So, all he did was differentiate: he noted that the first one did not light. He found a thousand ways that the light bulb doesn’t work. When he found the one that did, someone might have said to him, “Why did you waste one thousand steps?” They were not a waste. They were going toward the end result.
Edison’s ability to differentiate and not judge allowed the Spirit to keep glowing through him, until the completion appeared. That became the enlightenment.
This can happen with anyone who has created — and I don’t mean just what we think of as artistic creation. When you are just processing and observing and doing, the Spirit can more easily move in with you. Because, remember, if you judge, you are judging Spirit and its law. Because Spirit is noninflictive, it stands outside, in its law, as you judge and hold a barrier against it. When you release the barrier, Spirit is more than anxious to be united with your own spirit. That other Spirit quickens yours, and you awaken more to see the “Aha!” or the “Eureka effect.” This is the co-creation. Then from that, you can make the jumps in consciousness that are great. But you may still have to come back and fill in the spaces.
When we make the jumps in consciousness and fill in the spaces at the same time, we become multidimensional. We see what to do, and we do it. But we do it with such a willingness that there is no need to balance anything. There is no residue. It’s like we write and erase at the same time, and when we get through, everything is accurate and there is nothing left. And it becomes excellence here — and perfection in Spirit.
WATCH JOHN-ROGER SPEAK ON CREATIVITY AND SUCCESS