Intention, Humor, and Loving Service
An Interview with Rick Ojeda

By: David Whitaker

February 28th, 2019

Intention, Humor, and Loving Service<br/>An Interview with Rick Ojeda

Rick Ojeda (center) Assisting on an MSIA Trip in Jerusalem, 2014  

NDH: These interviews are about the lives of ministers in the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness. And we can really cover anything that you’d like to share. The bottom line is, let’s have fun. Let’s relate it to what’s going on now. What’s it like for you to be a minister now? And let’s weave the story of all the ways that you’ve been a minister in MSIA.

Rick: Well, something that you sent me definitely struck a chord which is, the beginning. And that for me is J-R and Jsu and my relationship with them. My story with J-R begins with how I met him and that is through someone I was dating.

I didn’t have loyalty to a form of religion at that time. I did enjoy church. It didn’t matter if it was Catholic or Christian, I never declared one. I had a lot of latitude. There was no, “must be Methodist, must be Catholic,” or that kind of thing. It just didn’t matter to me. I would go with a friend or with family to a particular church and I would just take it for what it was. I was very open in my acceptance of that at the time. And this goes back 30 or 40 years.

NDH: Did you grow up a particular religious background? Did you go to church as a kid or anything like that?

Rick: Yeah. I would say that the church that resonates immediately is Methodist. But I couldn’t, for the life of me, tell you what that was really about or how it was different than a Catholic church. I just didn’t have a real connection to any of it so I was very open to just about anything. Which was very nice because there was something inside me that resonated. Maybe it’s called Spirit. Would I roll my eyes at some places? Maybe at the time, but at other times I would go, “wow this is really powerful.”

So I didn’t have a declaration to any [religion], but I was very open, which brings us back to this woman I was dating. We quickly moved in with one another. And while we were dating I would see photos of this curly-haired dude and thought maybe it’s her dad. And of course I come to find out “No, that’s my spiritual teacher.” And I was like, “What does that mean?” Whatever her description was, I said, “Good for you. But don’t asked me to get involved. That’s your thing.”

And I allowed that. We’ve all met people in life who say you must have a certain belief or you must do this or you must be that. I just didn’t have that in me. I was like, “Okay, you do your thing and don’t ask me to be involved. I’m here for who you are and that’s it.” I’ve always been that way. Don’t try to get me part of some group.

NDH: What decade are we in? To give us some context here.

Rick: That would have been 1995. I was coming out of college. I had just started my business career and the point of that is I just allowed it. So I move in with my girlfriend and we have Agape Stasinopoulos as a roommate. And I start to meet all of her friends. Who I thought were quite amazing. And I kept getting introduced to more and more of her friends who were in this spiritual group and they were smart and they were successful. I had a true liking of them.

And they were all doing this na-na nu-nu thing. And I was like “Alright, whatever.” I would go and hang out with them and they’d say, “Rick you should come. You have not met J-R. You should do this.”

And I’d say, “I don’t need to do this.” I was too cool for school.

Ultimately one day, I call it a weak moment, all the friends were like, “You got to come to a seminar. We’re going tonight. Come on.”

“Okay, alright I’ll go. I’ll come meet this dude.”

So we go to the Brentwood room [at 2101 Wilshire] and we sit in the back of the room. And I’m there with three or four of Alexandra’s friends and Agape stands up as J-R enters and she says, “J-R you’ve got to come over and meet Alex’s boyfriend. You’ve got to meet him.” So he comes over and reaches down and says, “Hi there, welcome to the cult.” Immediately, I’m in love with him. And it was the seminar of all seminars because, as I recall, he referenced me numerous times throughout the seminar.

NDH: He referenced to you?

Rick: Yes, specifically. “Rick, where are you going? Did you get paged somewhere?” And I’d come back from the bathroom and he’d say, “You know, it’s kind of like Rick back there. You see Rick, he’s kind of like an Oreo cookie. See those women over there? Rick. Rick. Rick. Rick.”

He was funny. He was out there. There was just something about him that I really resonated to. Then, shortly thereafter, I was fortunate to connect with him numerous times. And then one time I had the balls to ask him, “Can I have your phone number?”

And he said, “Sure, here you go.”

And I would be able to call him and we would have lunches together. And didn’t think too much of it. But I really enjoyed having that connection with him. I began to meet Zeus (Jsu) and then one time I invited them for my birthday. That would have been about a year later.

J-R comes to dinner at our house, and he comes with Zeus. I’ll always remember this. Zeus was like his bodyguard. He didn’t say a whole lot. He kind of hung out in the corner. He fell asleep. And he just let J-R do his thing with me. And to have J-R at the house was so amazing and to be able to do lunches with him. He would even come to my office.

There was just something that was special. It was a spark. It starting something. And I was loving it. The whole MSIA thing just became, “Yes, of course.” I began to show up more and before you know it, J-R would allow me to go to lunches with the guys.

The one thing I’ll always remember is when J-R would be in the entourage with the fellas and they would do their thing, and then they would leave, and I would be like “Gosh, I want to go with them. Why can’t I go?” So I started asking, “Can I go with you guys?” And they were like “Yeah sure.” And we’d go to lunch

And before you know it I’m going to dinner and things are happening very fast. I was being allowed to do a lot of things. Over time, I felt that I became misunderstood because — in my perception– in the Movement there were many people who felt like, “Rick thinks he’s too good for us. Rick’s in the Inner Circle.” That kind of thing. It happened very fast.

When I first came in I did have a big ego. And as time would go on I would not, in my trueness, ever feel different or better than anyone else. I felt a depth of gratitude to even be allowed.

I would come across “Why is that dude always hanging out? Why does he get to do all that? And look how he carries himself.” Well there was nothing in me that I felt was special or better than anyone else. I was almost in awe all the time. And, I would say, as long as I’ve known J-R, I was pretty much in awe and I knew inside to never take it for granted. Because it was very moment by moment with J-R, and the guys will tell you that.

In the the depths of my heart I knew to soak up every moment because it could end right now. But how am I going to carry myself that way to others? To let them know that that’s the depth. If I’m being allowed to go to dinner with them that was like “Wow” to me. There was always a preciousness to that. That gift. That allowing.

To put it in context in the time period, around 2000 was when I was being allowed to travel with the guys. To almost be staff. And that means to be at the house all the time and hanging out with them and getting to be close. So that’s about 16 years that I was allowed to be close.

I knew that if I had s*** going on — it’s not like when you come home to your girlfriend or wife or your buddies and you start throwing attitude — There was always this thing inside that I should be on my best behavior. And I don’t recall messing that up. Because number one, I knew that it wouldn’t be allowed. Secondly, is that I always wanted it to be comfortable for J-R to be around me.

Now that I’m talking about it, if I go to a friend’s house or to a business meeting or anywhere, I generally don’t want to talk about problems or upset. I want it to be easy for people to be around me. And sometimes that comes across as trying to be too perfect or plastic, but I’m really just trying to make it easy. I never wanted it to be hard for J-R to be around me. And maybe that was why I was even allowed to be around for so long. I don’t know.

I also knew that there was a service consciousness involved. I knew that if something needed to be done, I would be there to do it. So it wasn’t like a buddy-friend-hang-out kind of thing. There was responsibility to it. Not that J-R ever said that to me but it was, “I’m here to be of service.” And that’s why I have been of service to the church [MSIA].

Which brings me to another topic — traveling — to know all of the places that I’ve been in the world; to all the dinners, the lunches, the breakfasts, the holidays, to J-R walking my wife down the aisle, to the littlest things, and just being able to sit next to him at an event. How do I repay that?

And as I said a moment ago that when I’m with J-R, it’s not like I’m on vacation. Or I can just hang out. There is a level of service in it. And with that, was for me to volunteer, to assist where I could. From Easter to Thanksgiving to Christmas to Conference. I raise my hand because that’s how I pay him back. How I show my gratitude. It’s that way for me, to be of service is to show my gratitude.

Because as rough on the edges as I may have been when I first came into the Movement, I really hope that I’m different than I was back then. I know for me, inside, my level of learning, spiritual connection, any gifts that I have, etcetera etcetera, it’s J-R. I have the fond memories and the fullness of heart, and I attribute so much to who I am in this last third of my life to J-R. It’s because of J-R. Any goodness is because of what I learned with J-R.

It’s a segue into being of service. I’ve participated in so many things. I’ve been the volunteer team captain at Conference, I think 18 years, Christmas and all of those events. As many as I can do, I’ll do it. And then there’s the traveling part, being of service on trips.

This is a segue to another kind of service. What I hope was special — if there was anything special about me — was when J-R would allow me to work on him.

NDH: In what way?

Rick: I’ll call it “hands on healing” if you will. When the dude of all dudes — after you put your hands on him and massage his shoulders or send Light to him — looks back at you and says “Thank you so much I feel much better now.”

You go, “Wow!” because God knows he doesn’t need to boost my ego to tell me that. When I’d see that J-R was hurting I’d ask, “J-R can I put my hands on you and help you here.” And he’d say, “Yes” many of those times. Then he would look at me and just say, “That’s better.”

If I could make any impact, I would like to think that it’s through Spirit and that there’s some connection and that I could do that for others. I had a very strong intention that anytime I had my hands on J-R I was just trying to make it better for him whatever that looked like.

So that’s where the service part came in, when I would be around him, and I would look at him and I could tell something was up. I’d say, “J-R can I help you, can I work with you right now?” and he’d either say yes or no or whatever. That was hopefully something that I was able to give to him.

One of the other parts in connection with J-R was how to be better. Be better spiritually if you will. Because here I am allowed to be around, “the guy.”

There’s something about who I am. That I always want to learn. I always want to be better, it’s just who I am. I’m not content just being content. It’s, “How do I be better?” And if I would be able to experience something uplifting or healing, then I could be better or make it easier to be around me.

Again, back to being a better service to J-R or others, I would take classes, PTS classes primarily. You know I’ve done all the Master’s classes. I think I’ve done, it could be 7 years, of DSS consistently. And that is a legacy of work that I feel J-R left us in showing us how to do the work. It’s like, “I can’t do it all guys, you have to start helping yourselves.”

In my opinion, that’s what PTS has allowed and provided when we do our AMS sessions in DSS 5.

NDH: What is that? AMS?

Rick: Yes, AMS. It’s a ministerial session where you do a one-on-one with somebody and it’s why I show up all these years. Because when you sit down in front of somebody (you kind of pair up), there’s nothing big and mystical about it other than you’re just with them and you say, “I’ve got some issues.”

You share what’s up for you and it’s okay. At that moment, people might have something heavy on their minds or something they’re working with and other times there’s nothing or you think there’s nothing. It’s like, “I’m blank right now.” Like nothing’s present. And then, as you go through the session and you’ve called in the Light, you’re really with the sincerity of using this as an opportunity to clear something whether you’re aware of it or not, or trying to heal something or work through something.

Part of the class is to let Spirit do the work. And there’s no way I would know how to do that. It’s just, I’m sitting in front of someone who is sharing something and I have the intention to let Spirit do the work. And maybe unconsciously, maybe through seminars and tapes, I’m sure there’s some J-R there, but Spirit does the work and things come present and you start sharing that with somebody.

I feel like I’ve got a really strong track record that I’ve made a difference in someone’s life. I made a difference, not because I knew it through my knowledge or my ego or my emotions or anything. I made a difference because whatever came forward, whatever came out of my mouth, struck a chord. Maybe it cleared or redirected someone or lightened them. That’s why I show up to the DSS, because those are magical moments when somebody looks at you with full sincerity and says, “Thank you.” To me, that is doing the Traveler’s work.

I feel that with PTS. That’s what those classes are designed for. And I think that adds to my story. It’s about learning and wanting to do things differently and to be better. And to be better. And to be better. I love that. I love the learning. I love to be better. It’s what excites me. I love to be good at things, and at the same time, I love to learn something I didn’t know before. Especially when it comes to spirituality. The things that we learn all the time, you also have to practice. And I’m guilty of not practicing at times. So that’s a big theme for me, just constantly wanting to learn and to be better at things.

NDH: Thank you, Rick. What else?

Rick: I want to talk a bit about Zeus and that relationship because my heart has always been grateful to Zeus for allowing me to be close to J-R.

It wasn’t always easy to be allowed to be close to J-R because, remember, he has gatekeepers. If I could get to J-R and connect with him, I could have the opportunity to ask, “Hey, can I come?” But sometimes I couldn’t get to him. I just wasn’t able.

There is another thing that I want to say that was deep inside me. I was always prepared to accept “No.” Cleanly. Like “Hey J-R, can I go to China with you?” “No?” “OK. Can I go to the Diner with you?” I had to ask and if he said “No,” I was totally OK with that. I wouldn’t leave any lingering dust of pity. It just had to be clean.

NDH: How did you do that? What was your process of that clean “No”?

Rick: I understood all that was coming at J-R all the time. For example, If you go to a room of 300 people, doesn’t just about everybody want to go with him and hang on him? Isn’t it kind of understood that everybody wants to do that?

As I said earlier, I always wanted to make it easy for him. There was something about it. I don’t even think I learned it. I just knew that “No” is OK. Put yourself in that position. If you had ten people asking you for stuff all the time and they were like “Really! Why? Oh!” and they had hurt feelings and energy left behind, I think that would be a turnoff. I know that’s how I took it. And I don’t want to explain to 500 people or a thousand people why this or that and now you have hurt feelings. I think that makes it hard on somebody.

Open and receptive to anything, means anything. I’ll take a “Yes” just as equally as I’ll take a “No.” And that’s just the best way I can say it. It had to be clean for me. I created that. It’s not like anybody told me that and maybe I’m making it up that it was a good thing or a bad thing but I knew for me inside, I was always going to make that OK.

And since we’re on that topic, there’s one thing that if someone were to ask me, “What regrets do you have about being around J-R?” One of the regrets I have is that I didn’t have the guts, the balls, the gall, the whatever, to ask him sooner to be around more often.

Like I said, that was around 2000. But I was still seeing him in ’98 and ’99. I would have a resistance. “He’s walking over there and I know they’re going down to Izzy’s.” I wanna go. “Oh no, I don’t want to be a burden. Oh I don’t want to be asking ‘J-R can I do this? J-R can I do this?’”

It was all this stuff inside called, “I don’t want to be asking too much because of something I’ve dreamed up.” J-R had no idea of that, he could have said, “Sure, come on, I don’t care.” or he could have been, “No, I’m not well right now.” Whatever. But I built it up like, “Oh i can’t ask that.” And I regret that because for whatever reason when I started asking he was like, “Sure, come on.” And then, I thought wait a minute, “What about those last few years when I didn’t ask?”

So those are the ones I regret.

And in my story of Rick Ojeda, especially this last two decades of my life. My travels with the Traveler are beyond beyond. It’s some of the best parts of my life because of the experience that I had with that man and with Zeus, because Zeus was the captain. He was running things.

Those were trips of service but man did we have fun and man did we experience the world. I mean, I’ve been on top of the pyramid, The Great Pyramid of Egypt. There are not many people who can say they’ve been on top of The Great Pyramid of Egypt. And we did that because of J-R and Zeus and the tenacity and the connections. I mean, people who have lived in Egypt all their life have not been on top of the Great Pyramid.

NDH: It seems like there’s a connection there with the tenacity. Look at your own tenacity, your willingness to show up and ask and be told “No” or be told “Yes.” That kind of runs through what you just talked about. Asking: Can we go to the top of the pyramid?

Rick: Yeah. Exactly. And the intention

NDH: Right. The intention and the clarity of it.

Rick: The clarity of the plan and how we’re gonna do it and we don’t know how we’re gonna get up there but we know we’re gonna make it happen. And we did it. And that’s just one place by the way. We’ve done so many.

Being on all those trips with J-R, number one is that you’re being of service to the group. That’s different than when I’ve been out with Zeus and shooting movies. I’ve been on the Sahara Desert shooting a movie with, I don’t know what it was, twenty six, thirty six camels. “What? You did what? Where? On the Sahara Desert? It just sounds so..what? How?” It’s because Zeus is just phenomenal. And J-R wasn’t even with us on that one. That’s Zeus making it happen. And Zeus would of course say, “No, shut up, that’s J-R.” I’m serious. He would not take credit for that. He’d be on his knees, praying, “How am I gonna do this? How am I gonna do this?”

NDH: I’ve heard him say that.

Rick: I’ll tell you one story. This is one of those quick little stories that reinforces what I just said because of how Zeus can make things happen when we’re traveling. And it almost feels like a dream because I don’t know how it could happen.

So we shot Spiritual Warriors and it’s gotta be two years later. Maybe three. And we go back to Jordan and we’d done a scene over at Little Petra. We needed it to look like it’s a dated scene from hundreds of years ago and we needed help. We need goats. We need people. We need whatever. Of course Zeus, in his tenacity, connects with a sheik and does his charm. And this guy says, “Of course, I will get you everything you need.” He does and we shoot our scenes.

Well, we go back three years later to give the guy a copy of the DVD. Can you believe that? That was one of the primary reasons that Zeus wanted to go back there so that he could give the sheik a copy of the DVD. It doesn’t make sense but this is how I remember it:

It’s gotta be something like 11 o’clock at night and Zeus goes, “I’m gonna go find the sheik.”

“What? What do you mean?”

“Let’s go, come on. Do you wanna go with me? I’m gonna go find this guy and give him the DVD.”

It’s 11 o’clock at night in Jordan, in this tiny village.

“You don’t know where he lives.”

“I know. We’re gonna find him.”

“But he’s like a bedouin, he doesn’t live at 1234 Main Street, Jordan. There are caves. There are…I mean how?”

“Just come on, we’ll get it done.”


We try to find a cab at 11 o’clock at night, little village, of course we do find a cab. We get in the cab.

“Hey, hey, I’m looking for this guy.”

“What guy?”

“You know, this guy he’s like a sheik. He’s…”

And he starts to describe it, very generalized.

“Zeus, that’s half the country.”

And he says, “just keep driving. We’ll figure it out.”

Again, when I say village. This village, is as middle eastern a village as you can imagine. And there’s literally donkeys, kind of running wild. They’re everywhere. And they’re…it sounds weird I’m saying this but a village with loose donkeys and tumbleweeds and it’s 11 o’clock at night and we’re driving places and we have no idea where we’re at. And Zeus says,

“You know. He’s got a lot of people he works with.”


“We’ll keep driving, we’ll figure it out.”

And I recall that at some point, Zeus goes. “Let’s go ask that guy right there.”

“HEY! Do you know Sheik Mohammed?”

“Oh, yeah, he’s over there!”

And he starts pointing.

What? Alright. So we pull up. We find this little tiny house. It was a house but it was rough around the edges. Now it’s probably 11:30 PM, quarter to 12. Who knocks on a door? Who does this?

And sure enough, Zeus does.

The sheik answers the door.

“Hey, I’m so and so…”

“Oh yeah!”

Kiss kiss on the cheeks, “Come, Have tea with me.”

And it’s now midnight and we’re having tea in this dude’s little house. Sitting on the floor. And having tea. So that we can hand him the DVD.

I was blown away, “how could this be happening?” and that’s the kind of stuff that Zeus pulls of.

Because he’s got an intention.

NDH: Wow. That’s a great story. Let’s come back to J-R a little bit. Can you talk a little bit about driving with J-R?

Rick: So those drives, in my perception of it, were times for J-R to either do work or clear.

The job was to just drive. They would at times drive to Santa Barbara, they would drive up the coast. Just drive, cause J-R couldn’t sleep or he was clearing, going through things. Or he would have a hard time and it was just being driven and the motion of the car would help him or he would be doing work.

NDH: Going to certain areas?

Rick: Yeah, certain areas. “Take me over to this…let’s go to this place.” and it was like, places where he had to do work, as I recall.

I remember rides that we would go on where it would just be quiet. It’s not like, you where chatterboxing. You would just be driving. And sometimes you’d be driving just to hear Zeus talk because all he does is talk. Talk Talk Talk. Talk about everything. Talk about himself.

Just Zeus. Talk talk talk.

And for some reason J-R liked it. It was soothing for him or whatever. Or sometimes maybe he just blocked him out. I don’t know. But part of it was just to drive. So when I’d get the call, “Hey we’re going for a drive.” Did I know where we were going? Never.

I remember Zeus talking about, “We’re planting Light columns.” Or I’d ask J-R questions. Those are times when you’re in the car and you’re going through your mind thinking, “What can I ask? What can I ask? What’s in my mind?” Or “What’s upsetting right now?”

“Hey J-R, this is going on with me. What do you think?”

Those were awesome times because you could share something. And there were other times where, back to being considerate, I didn’t want to burden him. I didn’t want to be the guy who, everytime I’m there, “J-R Give me this, give me that, I need this, I need that, blah blah blah.”

So sometimes I would just keep it to myself. Was that good? Was that bad? I don’t know. Was it a missed opportunity? Probably. I just didn’t want to be clingy. Needy. And maybe that’s part of me because I don’t really care for people who are needy and clingy.

I wanted to make it as easy as possible. Was I always? I don’t know. Was it all the time? I don’t know. But I know that was a very strong intention. And so if we were driving it might be just to be there in support of him.

I remember being in the back seat and I’d put my arms around, he’s in the passenger seat, and I would just work on his neck or his shoulders. Just touch him. Just support him. There wasn’t any form of expectation, like “This is gonna be the most highlighted evening.”

It could be very quiet. It could be just being there. Literally. It’s pretty good if I’m fortunate enough to be with J-R and to have some conversations.

Why was I there you? What was the value? He could have said, “Dude, it could have been a squirrel. It didn’t matter.” I don’t know what he was going to say but I would have liked to be needed for some reason. Helpful.

On those drives, if you can imagine being in a car, I’m gonna be on my best behavior and I’m gonna try to make it easy and I’m not gonna talk somebody’s ear off. I want to be easy to be around.

NDH: It sounds like that was you finding your process of being there in a good way. Like, what you talked about at the beginning. “How can I show up with John-Roger? With the guy?”

Rick: You know what the thing is? The word that came up is to be cognizant enough of where to be sensitive or being sensitive in the moment. How are things in the moment right now? If it’s live and boisterous, then it’s all cool.

I think there was always a moment of feeling it out. “Where are things right now?”

I would have called myself sensitive to that. I don’t know. No one ever told me or coached me. That’s just how I played it with J-R. Sensitive. Respectful. Of service. And then, another thing you touched on. Is funny. Humor. Humor is so freakin big.

It’s part of my story that I enjoy talking s***. And I love it in a witty, sometimes cutting, sometimes low-blow way. And equally, you gotta be able to take it. And they were very good at dishing it out. If I would say my opinion about J-R and Zeus, it’s that Zeus was like the jester, the town jester. He was the clown that made life a little lighter for J-R. He was always trying to make J-R laugh or make us laugh. We would all go back and forth at one another. That was fun to me and that’s still fun. It’s in my relationship with my wife.

My wife is the same way. She’s smart and she’s witty. She can be cutting and we laugh at each other. The low blows we’ll say, we look at each other like, “Holy s***, that’s funny. I can’t believe you just said that. That is hilarious.” And it’s smart humor.

Humor is such a big part to me. And what is that humor is like? It’s not corny. I can’t do corny. Like on the various “hit” televisions shows, Big Bang Theory, Modern Family, Mom, and these others. To me, those are not smart and witty, they’re corny. Smart witty humor is Seinfeld, Friends, Chris Rock. It’s just those jokes that cut you at your knees. It’s off the top of you’re had going, “Oh my God, that’s so good!” And it’s truthful but it’s not to do it in a way that ridicules somebody to hurt them.

NDH: Yeah, you talked about maintaining awareness of the context.

Rick: And when you push the limits, like I do at times. There’s probably been a dozen or more times where…”Oh, I shouldn’t have said that.” There’s a point where it can be malicious, that’s not what I’m talking about. That’s different.

I’m an equal opportunity joker, especially in this area. If there’s laughter in it I’m able to receive it well. It’s very hard to offend me personally.

In the meantime, wherever I go — I could be at a company meeting, I could be anywhere — I generally am trying to be witty, and funny, and smart and I’m trying to bring laughter. I asked myself, “Why do I do that? What is that?” I’m kind of wanting to make myself laugh and it’s right here in front of me.

“Don’t you all see the joke? Isn’t somebody going to say it?” Boom! I’ll say it. And that’s just because it’s an opportunity to be funny and laugh at something. And there are times when it’s risky. What if it’s not funny?

“Whoops. It was funny in my head.”

But that’s just who I am. I like to take advantage of moments like that. If I can jab at somebody or I can jab at a situation and it’d be funny. But I wouldn’t want someone in the room to feel picked on. One of my guidelines is “Would I receive that? Would I laugh at that about me?”

And that would be the criteria. “You could say that about me and I’d be fine with it.”

NDH: In a way the offering of a joke is like asking J-R if you can go to lunch. You’re asking, “Is this funny?” and you risk that it’s not. You put it out there and you find out if it’s a yes or a no. And sometimes it’s a no. Sometimes you say the thing and you realize it yourself, as soon as it’s out of your mouth.

Rick: Yeah, and the easy thing is to not say anything. The safe thing is to sit back and to not say or do anything. I’m too far down that path to not say something. I just have to.

NDH: Alright, Rick. I Want to thank you and, in terms of wrapping up, ask a final question. Of all the conversations and all the things that you shared with J-R, I’m wondering if there’s a moment that stands out that you’d want to share that’s functioned particularly as a wayshower for you?

Rick: I’m gonna be vague about it. A situation happened at the house and I got hurt. And it was pretty bad. In my words it was really bad. And right after the incident, J-R was right next to me and I think I was in a bit of shock.

And he was sitting on the bed next to me seeing how hurt I was. And I could see him really looking at whatever. He was just kind of staring, and he said something like: This had to happen this way because it would have been much worse had it didn’t happen this way. It was really something horrific and bad that was going to go down and this was easier.

This is my interpretation of it: it was a karma that needed to be cleared. Why I tell you this is — obviously I don’t know the truth about it — but I believe it and have such gratitude for that moment that J-R was able to help me work through that.

There was something about the tenderness and the truth of the way that he was sharing with me that it gave me a perception or a reflection of what the Traveler does. Like when we talk about working through karma. And it was like, “Oh, this is like what I’ve heard about dreams, we can work through our karma in dreams.” And I don’t know about you but I’ve had some pretty bad dreams

You go, “Wait a minute, did I just work through something and I was able to work through it through a dream versus in real life?” And my heart fills with gratitude.

That’s just one of them that stands out.

NDH: Thank you, Rick.

Rick: Alright, so there’s some insight into the story of Rick Ojeda. I hope it was helpful and I don’t know if you were able to pull anything out of there but it was fun sharing.

NDH: It was great.

Rick: Thank you for at least including me in this. You know. Having been in the movement for over 20 years, it changed my life. And to be able to share some of this, I can remember when I was your age and you’ll look back when you have your twenty years or so and someone is interviewing you. And in some ways it sucks because you go, “Wait a minute, am I at that age now? That they’re interviewing me?!” I hope it’s something that’s enlightening for everybody.

NDH: I love that. And just on a personal note, it’s enlightening for me, so there you go, you’ve already touched one person. So thank you for that. I’m inspired by my takeaways from this. The tenacity. The willingness to ask. To hear yes. To hear no. I think sometimes it’s scarier to hear yes.

Rick: Yeah, and then you start looking at your worthiness and your what-are-you-afraid-ofs and what-are-you-missing-out-ons and all of that stuff that we make up in our minds.

NDH: What really stands out to me in your story is that you worked through it, in whatever way, in your own consciousness so that you could really find out. So that you could ask yourself, “What’s really is going on here?”

Rick: Yeah, and for me it’s that last little key. The true, honest, clear, willingness to hear “No.” And say, “OK. I’m OK.” That’s great.

NDH: And the other thing that stood out to me is the way that you match your participation with what’s going on — being sensitive to what’s going on and trusting yourself to see that and to line up with it. Thank you, Rick.

Rick: Alright, thank you for doing this.

NDH: Love you, see you around.

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