This Q&A with John-Roger is sourced from a live Q&A with John-Roger at Prana, Los Angeles, June 5, 1975. It is edited for use on the New Day Herald website. We recommend listening to the original. It was previously released as a September 2016 SAT seminar. If you are a SAT subscriber, you can purchase it in our online store or access it through That Which Is online.
Question: What does Father-Mother-God mean?
John-Roger: It means positive-negative polarity. But if you sit there and say positive-negative polarity people are going to say, “What are you talking about?”
The lower consciousness within each individual tends to be ritualistic doing its habit patterns over and over. It likes the familiarity of things. If you establish within a spiritual framework something they can hold on to as an abstraction of high consciousness, it gives them a form of comfort in the lower self, so that they can feel freer, intellectually, to move into the things that ordinarily would block them. They’re steps in this progression into this total reality.
And so you provide the necessary steps in the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness for whoever comes to you. Some people will come and you won’t have to provide very many steps. And others you’ll have to provide the boardwalk beside the stairs, and platforms in between, and benches to rest on. They really work you out. But that’s okay too because we’ve all gone through these processes. Not necessarily do we all do them exactly the same way or with the same outward dramatization, but we’ve all gone through them.
Question: Can you explain the Traveler Consciousness in greater detail?
John-Roger: Greater detail than just those words?
Well, we’re dealing again with this concept of Father-Mother-God. It’s an abstraction. And we’re really dealing in a non-verbal concept. We’re talking about a total reality that is above the negative realms that function under the Kal power and the Buddha power and Universal Mind power. We’re talking above that.
The Traveler Consciousness is like a bridge that was established at the time of Jesus the Christ. He established the bridge. We all are part of that particular bridge in this dispensation. That is what we call the Traveler Consciousness.
Now, many people who are living and dwelling as a form of spiritualized teacher in the negative realms think they are in these upper realms because the illusionary process is so tremendous. It’s something you have to really watch because they can use the same words talking about the totality, as the “this”, the “that”. But the energy level they’re pulling from may not be that. It’s just a word level.
Now, the Traveler Consciousness isn’t a word level. It’s a transmittal level. It transmits energy in a pure form. One way you can look at it is a very thin golden wire. Another way is it is the entire substance of all universes and all existences. But to gain access to it you can’t do the infinite, because that goes beyond the concept of the mind. So we make it finite and label it. But there’s not much more you can do with that except that after you have reached into the greater consciousness of transcending the body in a total awareness, then that knowledge and information becomes tremendously valuable to you.
Here it doesn’t mean too much. A hamburger can make a lot more sense to you than that, especially if you’re hungry. But not when you get in the transcended states above the Soul Realm and higher. Not the Soul here, the Soul Realm and higher.
Then that consciousness links you into what we call the infiniteness of the Sarmad. That is the Spirit God who is the first expression of Spirit.
Then we come to Sat Nam who is the first manifestation of that. Then we’ve got the dividing line and then the Kal power. Most all the religions of the world – everywhere from Hindu down to the latest cult functioning under that. They all function out of different levels of that.
There are only a few on the planet that are transcended. Not ascended, transcended. And I use that to mean they have transcended, knowingly, the grand division of the worlds — both the inner world and the outer world. And all they’re doing, primarily, is leaving the manifestation of the outer work which can be seen and then the inner work goes on automatically. There is just no physical form to do it in.
But we’re talking about bypassing all of that into the totality of your own God form, not the God form as a word level. It’s not just necessarily an experience level. Vocabulary is out the window at this point but, in that, it’s a process wherein any individual can go into that or have it extended to them. And that’s really difficult because it’s not in these worlds. It has other messengers for these worlds.
But when you get up into there, then you can tap right on to the Traveler Consciousness. Now that’s only called that here. When you transcend this level you’ll hear it that way. But then you’ll also hear the other concept of it and you’ll move on the concept. You’ll know where you’re going.
And then you will bypass into the Allness, which is what it’s called in other dimensions – the All-ness. Now I don’t know if that’s going to be of much help to you, but there it is on a vocabulary level.
Question: What is the difference in manifesting Soul Consciousness through the physical world and exteriorizing the body into the Soul Realm or in Soul, in the Soul outside the body?
John-Roger: You can be in awareness in the Soul body and not be exteriorized out of it. Let me answer it in two ways. I’ll see if I can answer one first.
When we are moved past all the sensations of the mind, the emotions, and the body — when we go back to where all that starts — that will be the energy of life and that’s what we call Soul for lack of a better word. You can be in that consciousness and people will feel your aliveness. They will feel your lovingness. They will feel a joy with you. They’ll like being around you. Your personality has more of a dynamic flow to it. People are attracted into it.
There are many people who are Soul-realized. They are functioning out of that, but not self-realized that they’re in the Soul. They don’t know they are in that because it takes more energy. In other words, you could go through a course in Mind Dynamics and go into the Alpha level, and get in there and not know any more than you were in the Beta level, because you have to know how to move the Alpha level once you get into it.
That would be similar of moving into the Soul. You’re in it. Now what? You’re already in it. You’re sitting there. You’re in it. You have to have some energy, or some technique, or some qualification that will make you move that. The moving of it is the stirring and the creating of all existence in your own universes. Now, that’s great, but that’ll make you incarnate back again, and again, and again, and again because you’re still within the realms of the Negative Power.
When you are exteriorized in the Soul, you are then free to dissolve all the karmic seeds that are in the Causal elements where all these are coming from, they are the emotional elements. And you start burning and releasing these.
Once you do it out of the body there is no pain or suffering. There is no dilemma. There’s no confusion. There is nothing. It is just perfect. A miracle is wrought.
Once you do it from the body, in the body, there is the pain and the suffering, because you’re up against the confusion of the conditioning of the personality by way of the body, the mind, the emotions, and the subconscious. And you can’t flood the subconscious because it’ll just stand against you. It’s a void. A darkness.
Once you get in the Soul and you stand out of it, you see it clearly. You see everything directly. You don’t see it by way of reflection, by way of illusion, or hallucination, or drama, or romanticizing. You just see it directly for what it is.
That directness of what things are is what we refer to as formulating the God-awareness.
Now when you get out of Soul in the Soul Realm, that’s liberation. That’s a hard one to come into. Many people talk like they’re in it. That’s hard. I’ll tell you right now, that’s hard.
And it is only by Grace that you can get this. Nobody has stumbled — I can’t say that. There were twelve archangels who stumbled into it, but not in this dispensation, not in this planetary existence. This planet didn’t exist in this state, or anything similar to it, when they did this. That’s pre-Earth history. Earth existed. Then it disappeared. It was pulled up. It cohered, came back again, and we got Genesis. I’m talking about prior to that.
Question: You said out of the Soul into the Soul Realm. Is that what you meant?
John-Roger: You can’t get into the Soul Realm in the emotions, or the mind, or through a projection, or wishful thinking. You have to have the body consciousness to do it. And those people who are not into that can’t do it.
At the same time when you’re in that you can have the total consciousness of absoluteness right here. But if that’s all you’ve got being in this consciousness with God — the God essence – if that’s all you’ve got, you also have got a tendency for delusion wrapped up in it. There are a lot of people who are established in the here and nowness, absolute consciousness of truth in all of its form, thinking that they’ve got the thing, and they’ve tapped into the Kal power. And it is so fantastically beautiful that it’s just overwhelming, absolutely overwhelming. It catches a lot of people who don’t know where these other entrances are, past the mirror of reflection. It just reflects back to them this total thing that they project.
If you walk up to the mirror and project absolute formlessness and absolute truth, that’s what you’ll see on the mirror. So you therefore think you have it because it’s a total reality in what you’re seeing. But the one who is in that can’t see the one who is bypassed. But the one who is bypassed can see those who are in that. But it isn’t a put down or a let down. It’s just a recognition of that’s what it is and that’s what they’re doing. It’s really fine and it’s all great, and it’s all part of this plan of unfoldment.
There’s no judgment because you know better than to judge. You can evaluate it saying, “They’re doing this.” But that’s not to put yourself in a hierarchy position. It’s just stating what it is. “I’m sitting up here on the stage. You’re sitting over there.” It’s neither good nor bad. It’s just stating what is. I’m sitting higher in the room than anybody else on this level. That doesn’t mean I am in a hierarchy position. I’m just stating what it is and everybody would agree to that.
But on these other levels, you can’t agree to it until you’ve had that experience. So it’s all baloney to you anyway. But it’s also a director. It points arrows to this rapidly unfolding consciousness. The thing that is interesting is whenever you step into the Soul awareness you will be absolutely misunderstood by ninety-nine percent of the people because you’ll seem like you’re a funny weirdo.
Now there are funny weirdoes who aren’t in Soul. Funny weirdo by everybody’s concept of funny weirdo, not mine.
Question: What exactly is the Akashic Records?
John-Roger: It comes from the word Akasha which means recording, and it’s a substance that is in this level. The Akasha is located in the Causal Realm. It’s a substance like a chemical substance or a book, or papyrus. And it is formulated electro-chemically. All the etchings of your consciousness are placed within that. It extends into you and into that. So the things that you have written into your consciousness that are not erased, are tabulated correctly, are then shifted up into the next level and held there as a remembrance for you. So the Akasha is like remembrance.
All you’re doing when you are working in Soul Transcendence is pulling these things down and working them out, and pulling them down and working them out. You pull them at your own rate. They are your own obstacles.
The Traveler Consciousness places no obstacles with anybody, but intensifies the awareness of the obstacles so you can confront it and dissolve it. Thank God for it or we’d go around not knowing that we’ve got these other things racked up on another level in these negative realms.
Question: How do you get awareness of the illusion of thinking you have achieved?
John-Roger: Well, whenever you think you have achieved something, how do you know if you have or you haven’t? You come back over it again and you watch your reaction pattern. If you react, you haven’t. If you have action, you’re clear.
But the consciousness directed towards it is the criteria of the evolvement, even though there is no such thing. But in terms of vocabulary and intellectualizing, that’s how I’m answering this. If somebody comes around and bangs your car and you say, “Well, they banged my car. I’ll get a new one.” You’re free from it. It doesn’t matter if they bang your car.
But if they bang it and you think, “Oh God!” and you’re uptight, and they bang it again the next year and next, you’re on top of it. But what happens is pretty soon you start to recognize, you’re cognizing, the re-cognizing that which has happened. It happened. Pretty soon you start saying, “Hey, that happened. Ha, I’m not going to get into that.” And by the exercising of choice, the freedom of the decision, you move past it. Bam your car gets hit again. You say, “That happens to cars. They run out of gas. They get flat tires, ignitions go out, lights are left on, you know, all sorts of things. That goes with cars. And it happens.”
That doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen to you. That goes with having a body on this level. But that inner awareness of what it is, is when you realize the illusion of it. Once you start to get the idea of what the illusions are and how to break them, it’s a domino effect. They just go. Then you’re in a crisis condition because now you don’t know who you are. You’re not your red car any longer. Then I come along and lay something on you. And then you’re that for awhile. That’s just to give you comfort!
Question: At the point of where you’re living in that nowness that you said is the perfect reflection – how did you get past that point, thinking that was it?
John-Roger: The consciousness that is speaking now has never fallen. It has never incarnated into a physical body in this particular era. This consciousness that’s speaking never went through anything. It is your breath that speaks.
Question: But you had to get to a point of that coming through you?
John-Roger: That point of it coming through me was a good dice game I was in. You have to fulfill all your evolutionary qualities. I fulfilled all the evolutionary qualities. There was nothing left to do except give me the job as janitor. But I am saying, the Soul form that occupies this body is a God form that has nothing to do with these things. These questions don’t apply to it. It would apply more to the basic self that would occupy the body. How will it happen? It will happen because I am here.
Question: Did you have a physical teacher or was your teacher on the other side going through all these steps?
John-Roger: My teacher was in a physical body but not with me physically. But I had many physical teachers, but not that one. That one had a physical body but was residing in the subtle levels of consciousness with me. And it had been doing it for so long I didn’t know that’s who it was. Then, when I was released from the whole karmic flow, I realized who did it. I was clear. It was like somebody pulled the curtains and I said, “Well you’ve been there all the time.” It was like, “Yeah.” And then it was, “Why’d you hide behind the curtain?” The answer was, “I didn’t. You had the curtains, and then you parted them and there I am.” I just said, “That’s pretty sneaky.” And it said, “That’s the way it goes.” I wasn’t going to hit him.
Question: Having a desire level of wanting sex, love, and material comfort, is that spiritual growth?
John-Roger: Your question as I think I understand it is do these qualities that the body represents, and the emotions and the mind, of desires and wants for materiality, block the spiritual progression or the spiritual awareness?
Let me answer this two ways. The way I work with you no, nothing can block that because I don’t let you in on all of it. Therefore you can’t stop it.
But if you want to have knowledge of it, of the absoluteness here and now, then you must enter the discipline of using the world as a caretaker for the world, but not possessing or owning it. You can not possess or own anything here. And if you enter into a fixation of, “I want that or this person, or a child, or this car, or that job, or success, or recognition,” then you must be undermined in the whole process of fixation, because there’s no such thing.
And anybody who undermines you does you a blessing, because you’re in a state of agony and a state of sorrow. And your present condition then would be saying “non-spiritual.”
But that’s also a process of crisis identification where you are working to become aware that those things aren’t really functioning for you in the here and now. It’s okay to have these things. It’s okay to, let’s say, have a desire for that in a sense of, “Yeah, that would make me feel good.” But not to compromise the ethics of your beingness to get it. I’m talking about lower world consciousness from the second division down.
In the Soul consciousness and in the higher Light in this absolute awareness, no, there is nothing you can do that’ll stop what I am working with you unless you say, “I don’t want it,” and you turn away or move towards somebody else. And the connection just drops very fast.
With the dropping of it comes tremendous confusion, because all the karma that was released for you has been held in reserve. It’s just passed back to you. And it’s not released entirely until you enter complete Soul consciousness.
Because you are a free individual, you’re in a state of free choices. And because of that the choice is always yours to do with what you’ve done. I hold it in reserve. It’s worked out and held in reserve.
But once you do something else I can no longer hold that. That’s a violation of spirituality, so it’s returned to you. If the person you’re going to go with or be involved with can handle that for you, that’s fantastic. And if they can’t, good luck. It feels like hell, but it isn’t. Just feels like it.
Question: What are the reference points for the Etheric level when you’re working your spiritual exercises with the initiation tone, and you don’t have the initiation tone for the Etheric level?
John-Roger: There’s no reference point. There is none. The reference point is given to you at the time of Etheric initiation. That is the encapsulating of your consciousness so that you move through the void in perfect protection. This is where most of the people fall because that void is so dark and black. But there’s a mirror at the end and it just reflects back. You don’t recognize the distance to the mirror and that is what we really call the unconscious. And that unconscious is reflective of your own condition. And in that you have a lot of things to work with.
Question: J-R, when you talked about joy and living love, I’d like to know if there are techniques to move into that or is it a matter of evolvement?
John-Roger: To bring it forward through your own consciousness? It can be done, but you’ll have to give up all those other things that will block it like jealousy, and hate, and revenge, and getting even, and hurt, and upset, because those are antithesis to that. When those are held in abeyance and released because there’s no energy placed into that, there is a spontaneous occurrence that is there. It’s the Soul. And it’s always bursting, and attempting to burst forward.
But in this level is its weakness. In this level, in the negative realms, the Soul is the weakest. So most people who function within these negative levels, don’t function by way of Soul. They function by way of consciousness. Then their consciousness becomes all pervading and they do all the tricks.
The powers that are given, they are referred to as Siddhas, in the yoga concept. Most of the people that do this get blinded by their own power. That’s why we don’t enter into that approach. It’s too easy. Even those who have the best intentions have fallen by the wayside.
End Part 1. Look for Part 2 in an upcoming NDH article.