This Q&A with John-Roger is sourced from a live Q&A with John-Roger at Prana, Los Angeles, June 5, 1975. It is edited for use on the New Day Herald website. We recommend listening to the original. It was previously released as a September 2016 SAT seminar. If you are a SAT subscriber, you can purchase it in our online store or access it through That Which Is online.
Question: Regarding earthquakes, what is the flow of energy that is released? What do earthquakes have to do with the Christ Consciousness and the return of the Christ?
Well first of all the Christ never left. And secondly, every time we have an earthquake it changes your consciousness. But the major earthquakes that are shifting the planetary flow are ushering back in great spiritual powers that are already present on the planet. It’s like people are saying, “We’ve got to wake the kundalini.” It’s already awake. It’s just you’ve got to wake up that it’s there.
And this same thing is taking place. People are being awakened to these energies that the Logo of the planet is holding in reserve. They’re there. They’re present.
And the Spirit is being poured out to people just tremendously all over the planet. And the New Age vision is much like anything else. It depends upon your conditioning, where you’ve come from, what schools you’ve been taught in, what your own ambitions levels are, and then that primarily becomes a vision of your New Age. That of course is a real conditioned vision. And I really wouldn’t want to place too much stock in a conditioned vision because mostly it’s a person perpetrating their own energies against somebody else.
Question: I noticed that after seminars, either recorded seminars or seminars with you in person, I go into a very long, deep sleep and remember my dreams more often than other times. Can you explain what’s happening?
John-Roger: To answer the question I’ve got to do a little digression. First of all we have what we call the awakening state. Then we have what we call a dream state. Then we have what we call a sleep state. Then there is a state beyond that. There are many beyond that but I’m just referring to this question.
When you are in that beyond state, you then are formulating your dream as a part of releasing of karmic energy and you will bring back that total recall. When you are just in a regular dream state, when you wake up, you have other transitory things that have placed themselves there and you would not bring back the totality of it. There would be a lot of confusion.
When you’re in that state beyond then, that is because you’ve received more energy that is coming from that state. It is bypassing directly the sleep state, the dream state, and the awake state. It’s bypassing it directly to you while I’m either present as a look, as a talk, or as just sitting here. It goes on. I don’t have to do anything. It’s like when the light is turned on it doesn’t have to know it’s on. It’s on. And it does what it’s going to do. And if people want to close their eyes, the light’s still on. See it makes little difference and that’s the process that goes on.
This beyond state is called the fourth realm by a lot of people but it’s beyond the mind, beyond the emotions, beyond the body, it’s working out the karmic flows of energy. If you can bring that quality back with you into what we call this physical waking state, then you’re into a concept of realization. You won’t be caught up in the illusions any longer in those particular areas. But there are illusions above you that you have to watch out for, but that doesn’t matter as you go on anyway.
You’re really saying, “J-R I don’t know how to do this thing you’re talking about and I don’t know what you’re talking about because I’m not into that.” So therefore your question’s invalid in your state of consciousness.
But when you’re in the Soul within you, and you’ve moved your awareness, your awareness is now out here at me. Do you understand what I am saying? When you have changed that and you moved back inside of you, and you’ve tapped the pure energy of your beingness, you’re in Soul but you may not know that. But there will be a joy that will transcendent. People may feel the joy from you more than you feel it being with you. They may feel it coming from you, because it’s awful hard for you to feel being a female, but a man may feel it really easy from you, you see? And we’re dealing with that type of a thing. It’s a very natural thing. And you can have it in either state — either in the above state looking down at it — or in the Soul consciousness itself. When you are in Soul consciousness and you know you’re in it, you can have it, and you can move the Soul levels around. It’s just bliss.
Question: I have a question on the semantics of oneness.
John-Roger: If we are talking about the concept of oneness, what are we talking about? Are we talking about everybody being in the same pond, in the same water in the same pond? Or could some of us be salt water in pure water to maintain the type of individuality, and still yet be water so you’ll be in oneness?
I think this is what your allegory is presenting.
When we are speaking of a oneness, we are talking about a unilateral form, not bilateral. There are not two things present. There’s only one thing present.
That one thing that’s present will be love. Gasoline is gasoline, but there are many different grades of gasoline. But it’s gasoline until it no longer is in that. When it no longer is in that it’s no longer a oneness of gasoline. It’s now become something else.
This oneness is a spiritual flow. For example, the air here — there’s a oneness in air. And yet we can individualize it by propelling it so that you could be aware of the individual flow of that. But as soon as that stops, then that becomes oneness again. We can take and put all sorts of things in the air, incense, odors to select portions of this oneness so you can have a personal identification with it. All that’s doing is a form of stimulation of your receptors to give you a form of identification. That’s a form of separation.
As soon as you have to identify a “there” and a “here”, it’s a state of separation. And when I look at you, I don’t see you there. I know you’re there because of your consciousness, but I see you here. You’re within me. My auric field has encompassed everything. There is no difference here. But I must leave a consciousness of peace and tranquility and oneness to come into individualized perceptions, to formulate a question, and to relay an energy to you that transcends the information. All I’m concerned about is the energy field. Because the information could be ham and eggs, ham and eggs, ham and eggs, ham and eggs, and the thing would take place the same way.
But since you’re focusing out of a mentality, then I have to move into that, hold the mentality, place the energy through the mentality, transform it through your emotions into the body to stir this other level in there so you can feel it up flow. Now you’re waiting for a down flow. You’re waiting for the descending current. That’s already present. That is the oneness. It is present. As soon as we just breathe in we have a oneness of air, but a different utilization of that. If I do not separate you by saying you must breathe it this way or that way, do this, or do that, or do this, then I’ve not placed separation between us. I am allowing you the free use of your own space. That’s a oneness right there.
Question continued: So I will always be aware?
John-Roger: You’ll always be aware.
Question continued: So there will never be a point in time when I will never be aware no matter what it is I need to be aware of?
John-Roger: No. There will be a time when you go to sleep, when you won’t be aware as you are now.
But there will come a time when you will have a total consciousness on all dimensions. And you’ll just focus your conscious knowledge on the dimension you wish to be in at the point you are, but have total knowledge of all the other levels. It transcends the mind. While I’m looking at you I can see all these other people here, but they’re not doing anything, so why should I have to focus on that? But as soon as somebody raises their hand it’ll pull my attention to it, and I will handle that in the way I handle it. But it’s not a disturbance. It is that flow. Then I just look at them. What they’re going to tell me is already present inside of me, or what they’re going to ask me. Then I can go as deep into it as I wish to.
Most people when they ask a question aren’t really concerned with that answer. They want to know how do you do it, how do you do this? And the intellect often is just to hold that steady by way of a question. But while I was answering you, you were formulating questions again which isn’t fair. If you’d let it go, I am answering those right along with you. As you were asking the questions I was answering with you. But the other people here didn’t catch the questions. They’re only catching one part of the conversation. It’s fair with me because I know why you’re doing it. “I am going to do it whether it’s with you J-R or somebody else. I’m going to do it and that’s all I care about.” You know, if you do it, you’re going to do it with me because that’s the one that’s doing it, not this body. It could come through that body or that one. I don’t care and this body sure doesn’t care.
Question: Is there a relationship between consciousness or awareness and keeping your back in alignment?
John-Roger: Is there a connection between conscious awareness and body alignment? Yes.
Question: What is the relationship?
John-Roger: The relationship is if you’re out of line consciously, you’re out of line physically.
Question: Could you explain the term “the other side” in more detail?
John-Roger: The term “the other side” is just referring to the invisible — that which is not physically apparent. There is no more detail to it. It’s invisible. That which is material is present. It will corrupt and decay. The other side is that which is invisible and has spiritual qualities, and will endure forever.
Question: Where do the UFOs come from and why are they here?
John-Roger: Well, they’re coming from a heck of a lot of different places. Primarily we’re getting them through a psychic warp and they’re coming in out of the psychic realms of the astral worlds. And they are formulating when they come in as nuts and bolts hardware. You can grab them, but they disappear really fast because they’re on a psychic frequency. But they can still leave the nuts and bolts. They’re on a psychic frequency. That way they can come and go. They can be picked up on radar or not, it doesn’t matter.
They’re coming in on the psychic frequency into this world where you can see them and the radar can too. And when they disappear, you can’t see them but neither can the radar. Then they’re back on the psychic frequency.
That’s how they propel themselves. It’s just psychic energy. You can think of New York and you’re there. It’s as fast as that thought. They can think of Venus and they’re there.
Now there are some who are coming on a physical level, who have been coming for quite a few periods of time. It’s really difficult to say what it is because their time elements don’t match ours. Their planets don’t revolve, rotate like ours do. And a lot are coming in with a nuts and bolts consciousness out of the third kingdom. A lot of them are coming in through a parallel kingdom. It’s not Venus or Mars. It’s another kingdom. Primarily, we’d say with the way the psychic flow of energy is now, we should have a UFO increase all summer long until December.
Question: Can you explain why sometimes during spiritual exercises it seems a lot easier to focus on a tone, and at other times it’s like losing consciousness?
John-Roger: Yes, because those two things are different. And one is doing one at one time, and one is at another time. And in one, another time can be entirely different. How can you formulate something that is spiritual and set it into a path?
That tone is an indicator, an arrow pointer for you. And once you climb the ladder, who needs the ladder? But what if you want to climb back down again? You need the ladder. These initiation tones are ladders. Rungs of the ladder.
Once you’re standing still on the ladder there is no need to be aware of it. At that particular point the inner consciousness dissolves karma. The inner consciousness is the Traveler. All you’re doing is presenting yourself to have a more ready recognition of it, to become free, to let the confusions of the body, the emotions, and the mind just dissipate themselves. The value in doing these things often is just sitting down and being quiet and to quit stimulating yourself to let yourself know you’re alive.
Question: Is it necessary to know what’s going on?
John-Roger: Well if you have to have a bowel movement yes, it’s necessary to know what’s going on. As far as knowing if the sun comes up tomorrow, it’s already set.
Question: No, I mean, knowing you’ve got all these questions?
John-Roger: Is it necessary to know about all these questions? As far as I’m concerned no, but then I know the answers to them. Maybe somebody who doesn’t, it would be necessary for them only in as much as it makes their mind stop questioning that, and that has a value. But I’ve never really found a mind that stops questioning. Once it gets going it’s an extremely, extremely vicious thing. But for the most part, on this planet, we’re just dealing in the body and desires, and thoughts. Body, desires and thoughts. And at some point you have to break that by realizing that you are more than the body and the desire and the thought. They’ve got to come from some place more, and we’ve done all sorts of techniques to show you where that more resides.
Question: Have you said that the only thing you require to work with us is that we love you?
John-Roger: I never did say that. I said that’s the only way I can work with you, but I don’t require that you love me at all. But if you want the work done, then that’s another story.
I’ll teach you love. I’ll teach you what it is. I’ll demonstrate it to you every day.
Love is not wishy-washy. Love is not necessarily kind or unkind. Love is what is necessary in that moment of unfoldment. Just substitute the word “truth” for “love”. Substitute any other word you want to there. It’s the same process.
Question: I get the impression from what you’ve said in the past that the Traveler consciousness has never come through women? Why is that?
John-Roger: What’s a woman? There is no such thing as a female or a male. Those all are illusions for this level. The Traveler is not sexual in any sense of the word. It’s coming through everyone in the room. It’s present. It’s in everyone that’s present. It is in everything at all times.
Question: In the Discourses it talked about the basic, the conscious and the high self. What is it that when I close my eyes and I say “I am” what is that relationship to the Soul?
John-Roger: The Soul is the energy unit that produces all these other activities of the basic self, conscious self and high self. So we get three shots at getting into the Soul. We can get into the Soul by going out and do everything in the world, everything, totality. We can get into the Soul by yogic processes of turning the consciousness back in. Or we get in the Soul by going into the higher consciousness, the thousand petal lotus, or the high self. And by getting into that we just move across into it.
But after you’re into it, you still can’t transcend the Soul until that energy has been activated from Soul Level consciousness. You’re just as trapped. So it’s the activating of that energy that is the key to whole releasing process.
Now when you sit back inside of yourself and you say “I”, what are you talking about? Primarily, the unconscious kingdom, “I”, the God of the unconscious kingdom. Because you don’t know who that is that speaks. When I say “I,” I know who speaks. It isn’t ego that speaks. It knows who it is that speaks.
You keep working to get the energy and prepare yourself because you may stumble into it, like a crap game. You may luck out and hit it. And you try everything. You hit every angle possible. You don’t leave one open. You don’t think, “Oh, this is it and that isn’t,” because that may be it. To say, “This is it,” is a confusion. And to say, “That isn’t,” is stupidity.
You just say, “I’m going to see what it is. I’m going to keep going and I’m going to find it. If it’s there it’s there, and I’m going to find it. If it’s behind me I’m going to be turning around.” There’s no panic. There’s no rush. But you don’t have to go anywhere because it’s present.
Question: How would you enlighten us to deal with confusion?
John-Roger: Confusion is a process of separation of me here and you there. Therefore you’re always attempting to find out what is out there. You want to occupy that space. It’s very natural for humans to want to occupy space, to have it. But you know you can’t occupy it physically. And emotionally there may be a desire to occupy it, and mentally there would be an attempt to occupy it. But the closest you could get to it would be a psychic flow where we would just unite, and your thoughts and my emotions would all be intertwined here. But that still wouldn’t do it for you because that would calm things down only for a while But then you would become very familiar with that and therefore you would move that back into the confusion.
You see, part of the thing of unfolding into the Spirit is to have reference points along the way. Now, if I extended to you a miraculous occurrence and moved you into it, before too long you would unconsciously move right back into this other thing, or you would move this familiarity up to this other thing and make it what you are now, God, total consciousness with confusion around you.
Soon as you start saying, “Hey, I recognize it,” that’s confusion, because you’re ending with a goal and a goal. Where do I go? And because it’s goal-goal oriented, then there is this static of contraction of pulling in. “I want them both,” and you grab and you lose both of them because then it’s back here. You don’t know which way to go.
Let go. Start on one. It’s like, “What if I make a mistake?” It won’t be the first one you’ve made, nor the last one. But if you’re making the process of correction, and you see that you’re going on the rocks with that mistake, you say, “Sorry. I thought this is where I’m going, but it’s over here.”
But then it could put you on the rocks. But if you’re on the rocks you at least you know what they are. Then when that starts again you’ll say, “No. That takes me to the rocks. I’m not going into that.” That’s not confusion, that’s action.
Confusion is primarily emotional reaction that floods the mind with too many areas of choices. Write them down on a piece of paper — positive and negative for each choice. Write them down and cross them out and see what you come out with. If they’re the same, throw a dart. If it hits one you don’t like, you’ll know it and you say, “I didn’t like it.” Then go to the other one you liked anyway.
What we’re doing is that confusion is entering into greed. “What if I miss out?” This is really where the thing that is under there. That’s just the emotions and the mind and the ego trying to assert itself. It’s going to fail because it can’t do it. And anybody who helps you do it is helping you promote yourself to failure. Somebody who says, “Hey, no. Look, I’m not going in that with you,” you may think they don’t love you. But after you go in there and you get all the muck and mire and turn around and come back out and they say, “Hi, how are you?” You say, “Thank God you stood by.”
It’s called holding the Light. You may not want to go into it by saying, “Look, I don’t know what it is. I have too much concern. I’m just not going to enter into that. I’m going to stay right where I am. I’m going to hold.” And you just sit right there and you breathe in, you breathe out, and you breathe in, you breathe out, and it will then be brought into your consciousness.
The flow will come in more and more and you’ll identify it intuitively. It just comes in. “I know now. I just know.” The reason you didn’t know before is maybe there was no answer. Maybe there were too many variables out there that were forming this matrix for you to flow to, and it wasn’t set when you were urging it, sensing that it was coming. And the timing wasn’t right then. So you may say, “What if I miss it?” That matrix is going to flow until you hit it.
End Part 2. Look for Part 3 in an upcoming NDH article.
Click here to read Questions & Answers – The Inner Consciousness is the Traveler — Part 1